this still exists in 3.5.4; my kicker has one child panel, and sits on te bottom of the screen, so my trashcan (which i place on the bottom right corner) moves up "one grid" on every logon, even with "lock icons in place" set.

besides, it WAS gone for a while. also in 3.5.4.
since i'm running "suse buildtree" packages here (on a suse 10.1 x86_64), the actual differences between "official" kde 3.5.4 and what i'm running here are not really well-defined.

3.5.5 here and it is still not resolved.

*** Bug 119951 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Please make this bug a duplicate of Bug #118385 which is oldest and has the most votes among open bugs for this problem.

I will confirm this bug which still exists in 3.5.8

At login, autohide child panels move the DeskTop icons around.

Kdesktop is no more mantained. Fortunatly this bug seems not to be valid for
KDE 4. Please reopen if this bug is not a kdesktop one (and it is not solved)
or it can be reproduced on KDE 4.

Bug closed. Kdesktop is no more mantained.

I must sympathize with all the people who have experienced this problem over the years of the 3.x KDE version.  It must be clear from the historical analysis that this problem has been ongoing and never properly addressed.  To say it is annoying is an understatement.

But this leads to the big issue of the day.  The idea that the developers will just drop the support for something simply because they wish to jump into yet another project.  I suppose they have a right to do whatever they want, but it makes one wonder why the practice of Microsoft, stopping support for one particular OS or component, should be mirrored by the open-source community.

Worse is the fact that millions of users have left Microsoft for the Linux environment because they are damn tired of never having anything to use that is actually finished and perfected.

Now we find that the KDesktop maintainers don't want to fix the bad programming, and instead want to jump ship and move to Plasma on KDE 4.x.  But then users must use something that takes more resources and is in worse shape.  Now where have we experienced this before?

Oh well, you shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.  I guess we just suffer with the obvious defects.  But wait a minute.  What about Gnome?

So the search continues.

This is bugzilla, so please only add relevant information for fixing this bug. Since it is closed, there are none. you might open a new bug report, if the same issue is still present in current releases of KDE4.

Polemic is not welcome and useless. KDE3 is free software, you can develop it further or pay people to do so. Whining just sheds a bad light on your attitude.

The most relevant comment someone can possible make is to point out the necessity of reopening the issue.  That is the whole point.  I am surprised this wasn't obvious.

Also evidently not obvious to certain readers was the point that closing such an issue raises concerns of dedication to the target audience's concerns and needs.  I suppose my comments only will have an affect upon those not afflicted with the inability to feel shame.

As I already pointed out, I made a specific comment about the free nature of the software.  To use such in rebuttal is odd, to say the least.  It almost implies that I did not take that into consideration.  Since that can't be the case, the carefulness of the respondent's reading of my post is brought into question.

And finally, name calling and innuendo does nothing to solve this very serious problem.  (Who really is the whiner here?)  The use of the convenient method of closing down dissent is always typical of those who don't care, and is exactly part of what I was pointing out!  That also was obvious.  Finally, the respondent damns himself by affirming that he finds dispute to be “not welcome and useless”.  How Microsoftic.  I didn't realize that KDE's definition of open-source was closed-minded.  I won't make that mistake again.

To all those who read this, I would like to remind them that we need to continually remember the foundational concept that OS choice is all about.  The consumer, whether paying or not, has a right to expect that the product they select will be useful to them, else why was it promoted in the first place?  If it is not useful, they can point that out to the provider, or they can use something else, or both.  This is only right.

If the purpose of the software is to cause a loss of productivity to the user, whether intentional or unintentional, shame on the provider.  The response to notification of such errors is very telling.  We witness here the culmination of hundreds or even thousands of users' negative experience over the use of one simple and common element.  Proof was given that the problem was never fixed.

As pointed out previously, the providers are not required to do anything about it, because the software is free.  That in no way whatsoever changes the reality of the other points I have made here.  Users have a right to feel neglected and ignored, and to take exception when they are.  They also have a right to question the focus of the KDE organization, if the respondent's comments are indicative of that organization, and they should be able to do so without being called names.

Finally, for those who still don't get the appropriateness of using this bug report as a comment point for this problem; it does appear to be the culmination of a serious and annoying problem, and it is therefore a very appropriate location because of the focus given here regarding the overall issue.  No other location would be as useful, since the use of moving things around serves only to lose the focus of the issue.  (Note how the user had to gather together all of the relevant bug reports from all over the almost useless system.)  Unless that is the whole point.   Those of us who have searched the Internet for solutions believe that the source of that solution should be cross-referenced and distilled at the provider's own site.

> Proof was given that the problem was never fixed.

Wrong. The problem IS fixed. The fix is KDE-4.2.

I am sorry that you're unhappy, but I am unhappy too, when I see that whatever we do to make better software, people just assume we are evil and misguided and that we intentionally cause loss of productivity blah blah blah.
Saying such things only piss off volunteers, so stop it. Upgrade to 4.2, and notice how desktop icons do not move up/down at each login. FIXED.

I'm sorry I'm unhappy about this, and I'm sorry you are too.  However, I am more sorry that the KDE people (if the ones responding here are any indication) are not humble about the discovered errors and do not accept the outcome of what was done.  Instead, all we see is self-justification, and a clear attempt at being disingenuous.

Just to make sure people don't get the wrong impression about what we are being fed:
 - There has been no fix of Kdesktop.  It has been dropped and Plasma has been substituted for it.
 - Plasma and 4.x does not work as well.  Period.  That is why people downgrade to 3.x.  Duh! (Like this is news to you?)
 - Therefore, there is no fix!!!!!
 - Kdesktop was not dropped for a very long time, and that means that the known problem, which this post is all about, was ignored for a very long time.  Don't try to justify that.  Shame on you for trying to fool people into believing you made a “fix”.  (Talk about disingenuous!)

And please don't put words in my mouth.  I never wrote that anyone was evil.  And feeling sorry for yourself by stating that “whatever we do to make better software,.......” etc. etc., just makes you sound immature.  If you don't like coding and dealing with the user, find another line of work.  Users are going to be pissed off by all of their computing experience consisting of them being forced to use buggy software.  And (Surprise!) they are angry and they want a change.  The choice software providers have is to be a part of the solution now (not some time in the future when the providers finally decide on the software they wish to create), or to get out of the way.  Maturity is admitting the problem exists, and only then entering into a discourse regarding what can be done to solve it.

While I and many others have often noted our gratitude to the many volunteers that offer their services to the greater good, that isn't good enough.  Commitment to creating perfected software and to satisfying the user's desires is what is needed.  Those who do this will obtain our eternal support, and they will earn monetary rewards as well.

What you also do not understand is that so very many of us would be happy with KDE 3.x for a very long time to come if only the environment was made the stable thing it could be, rather than going after the new ideas that pop into coders' heads.  We simply don't need the new stuff.  We need to be able to obtain and use an environment that works without errors.  That's all.

The real issue here is that KDE does not admit that a problem exists with their software.  Therefore they will never accept that input of countless users who would have rather helped with this.

Those are my last words in this "discussion", because it's consuming time away from bugfixing actual non-dead code...

The reason why icons were moving up sometimes in kde3 is because the panel and the desktop were two different applications, and the communication between them about who reserves which areas of the desktop was complicated and messy.
If it was an easy fix we would have fixed it for a long time, I certainly hope you can trust us on that point rather than claim that we just didn't fix it because we didn't care enough to do so. The *TECHNICAL* solution to this problem and many others was to merge the panel and the desktop into a single applications, and that's exactly what plasma is. Design bugs cannot be fixed by changing a single line of code, they have to be fixed by a redesign, and that's exactly what happened for KDE 4.

> Plasma and 4.x does not work as well.

This might be true for x=0 and x=1. However x=2 changes this, it's quite nice now. But I'm not a plasma developer, so complaints against plasma should go in bug reports about plasma. And I wish you would actually try KDE-4.2 rather than base your judgment on 4.0 or 4.1.

You claim that "we are Microsoft" because we don't work on KDE 3 anymore -- but think a little bit: when was the last time Apple released a fix for Mac OS 9? That's right a really long time ago. Why? Because it would be a waste of time, the present and future is Mac OS 10. When was the last bug in Word-2.x fixed? When was the last bug in Linux-1.x fixed? Right, those things are not maintained anymore, there are newer and greater versions of those things, so it would be pointless. It's exactly the same with KDE: the present and future is KDE 4, our time is much better spent fixing the bugs in it (you would prefer KDE 4 to be bugfree, wouldn't you?) than working on dead code. I *am* thinking about what's best for the users when I'm saying this: our resources are limited, so we have to make choices. We cannot maintain 3 branches  (trunk, 4.2, 3.5), with different underlying technologies, we wouldn't get anywhere. It's easy to criticize when you don't have 180 (!) bugs assigned to you and 2500 (!) open konqueror bugs that I would in theory have a look at if I could just fix the 180 first ones first... (and if no other bug was reported meanwhile, which will never happen).

The problem in this report *is* fixed in kde-4.2. If you don't accept that, it's your loss. And don't tell me I don't like coding nor dealing with users, I do, when those users are being reasonable and not making impossible demands.