I can enable "box switch" in the desktop effects, but I can't select it in window behavior - task switcher, because it's not shown in the list.
dropped, use the qml based layout switcher instead. the effect itself will be dropped entirely with 4.9
The layout based switcher can't do what the box switch used to do, and looks absolutely horrible. I will file 2 separate bugs about that. Please restore the box switch!
Just for the record: it's still possible to use BoxSwitch in 4.8
Steps on how to bring back boxswitch in 4.8: 1. Enable BoxSwitch effect through the "All Effects" tab 2. kwriteconfig --file kwinrc --group Effect-BoxSwitch --key TabBox --type bool true 3. qdbus org.kde.kwin /KWin reconfigureEffect kwin4_effect_boxswitch
Awesome, thanks a lot!!! Please don't drop the effect entirely in 4.9, unless the new switcher can be fixed to provide similar functionality and aesthetics.
On Tuesday 10 April 2012 18:16:30 you wrote: > unless the new switcher can be > fixed to provide similar functionality and aesthetics. the new switcher already supports everything. All it needs is someone writing a layout which mimics the BoxSwitch effect. That effect had useability issues and because of those we did not want to mimic it, but to improve
As a programmer I understand. You made a super duper cool new switcher that doesn't just do one thing, but is actually an engine where you can plug any layout you want, and you can make new layouts, etc. As a user though, the functionality from BoxSwitch is just not there anymore. Whether that's in the switcher or layout or some other thingamajig is irrelevant, and I have no plans to write my own layout. And none of the available layouts looks like an improvement over BoxSwitch to me. I hope you get my point. Thanks again for the workaround.
Have you seen the new grid layout in 4.9? http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2012/03/window-switcher-love/ That one can be used in 4.8 (I do so at work, where I do not run master). If this layout does not satisfy your requirements for a boxswitch alike switcher, I would like you to explain which feature of boxswitch you actually miss and why neither thumbnail nor grid do not fit your needs.
The grid layout on that page looks more like "present windows" than like "box switch". The main problems with the thumbnail layout are: - bug 297809 - bug 297810 the next ones are more cosmetic; it seems that I can't select the layout based switcher anymore after the boxswitch workaround, so I'll write from memory (might be wrong): - it doesn't show the application icons - it moves the selection rather than circularly scrolling the thumbnails - I might be able to live with that
You just described the changes (I know them very well), but please explain why you need also the icon. Please explain why you need to see all windows. And please explain why the Grid which does both does not fit your needs. BoxSwitch effect showed huge usability issues when it came to including all windows and rendering the icon. For a larger number of windows no thumbnails were shown at all and the icon does not add any visual hint about the window if there are multiple windows for the same application (e.g. five kwrite windows).
The icon is the first (and easy) clue about the window I'm looking for. It's easier to recognize than the thumbnails (unless the background color is different or there are large GUI elements that distinguish it). After I found the icon, if there are multiple windows, then I compare the thumbnails. If there are multiple dolphin or kwrite windows though (for example), all visual clues are useless, and I can only cycle through them till the right one is brought to the front (elevated?), or skip alt+tab and use the taskbar (running smooth-tasks of course). About seeing all windows - it's harder to select something that I can't see. An overview of all the windows is very useful, otherwise I feel like walking through a maze. If the number of windows is very large, there's no switcher or layout I can think of that makes it easy to switch (unless it's a recently used window, in which case I just need it to be brought to the front on selection). The taskbar or perhaps krunner (activate running window) come to the rescue. About the grid, I'm not sure. If it's like the current "present windows" switcher, it might be usable, but I need to get used to it. The 2d layout is a big change, but yes the advantage is it has a lot more space (the whole screen) to render the thumbnails. Oh, and using all arrow keys is nice too. One disadvantage is that it can't bring the full-size window to the front for direct confirmation, so I have to rely on the thumbnails (+icons and titles).
Not a single day goes by without me mourning the murdering of the box switch. Is there any way to reenable it in kde 4.10? As every single switcher/layout available is either broken, unusable or both.
(In reply to comment #12) > Not a single day goes by without me mourning the murdering You've ever been to a *real* crimescene? You're just a drama queen. > Is there any way to reenable it in kde 4.10? No. > As every single switcher/layout available including https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/109832/ ? > is either broken, unusable or both. ... so much a drama queen ...
(In reply to comment #13) > You're just a drama queen. Yeah I know, you callous guys couldn't possibly care less about your users and the usability of the software you're working on. I already knew that. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop protesting. There are probably 20 different bugs I could file about the current layouts, but based on past experience, you will ignore all my arguments and close all of them as invalid or wontfix, without any reasonable justification. > including https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/109832/ ? I don't know that one, I'll try it out. Thanks for the link.
(In reply to comment #14) > (In reply to comment #13) > > You're just a drama queen. > Yeah I know, you callous guys couldn't possibly care less about your users -> Proof. "Drama queen" has nothing to do with concerns, but with the (exaggerating) way to express them. A: I want the boxswitch back. B: Code is heavily broken, we've declarative replacements - do your dream one. A: you don't care about your users Can you at least read, how silly that sounds?
(In reply to comment #15) > > Yeah I know, you callous guys couldn't possibly care less about your users > -> Proof. Ok, let's have one more attempt at reason. 1. KDE used to have the box swtich. 2. You removed box switch from KDE, without providing any switcher that has the same functionality. You did provide a switcher that can *potentially* be used to recreate the same functionality, but that's not the same thing. 3. Users complained and requested the box switch functionality. Bug 292566 shows that I'm not the only one. 4. You reaffirmed that the changes were intentional, asked users why they want the box switch, and advised them to write their own layout. 5. Users explained in detail why box switch was really good and why the new layouts are not satisfactory. 6. You had no response to the users' concerns, but just dismissed them by marking the bug reports as resolved. In my opinion, that shows you don't care about your users. > "Drama queen" has nothing to do with concerns, but with the (exaggerating) > way to express them. There are 2 aspects that affected me: 1. The amount of discomfort this issue is causing me every day. Sure, it's not as bad as losing a finger, but you're probably underestimating it. 2. The unsatisfactory response I received when I expressed my concerns the first time. Yeah, maybe it was better if I could keep my cool. But I still think my concerns are justified.
(In reply to comment #14) > > > As every single switcher/layout available is either broken [...] > > including https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/109832/ ? > I don't know that one, I'll try it out. Thanks for the link. By the way, by "available" I meant available in the system settings, not "existing somewhere on the internet". Anyway, I downloaded it (with great difficulty), but I can't figure out how to install/enable it. I tried putting the files under ~/.kde4/share/apps/kwin/tabbox/scaling and also under /usr/share/apps/kwin/tabbox/scaling, and I ran "kwriteconfig --file kwinrc --group TabBox --key scaling", but nothing changed. Some help please?
(In reply to comment #16) > (In reply to comment #15) > > > Yeah I know, you callous guys couldn't possibly care less about your users > > -> Proof. I didn't want a proof on "we don't care" but meant to say you're proving your attitude. > 2. You removed box switch from KDE, without providing any switcher that has > the same functionality. I will admit to not be a great tabbox user, but the thumbnail switcher pretty much seems to have the functionality the boxswitch effect had. (Big box, thumbnails, caption + icon of selected window, changes windows on alt+tab) > shows that I'm not the only one. No, you're the only one out of two. https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/109832/ shows that there more effective ways to deal with this than yours. > 4. You reaffirmed that the changes were intentional ... > 5. Users explained in detail... > 6. ...marking the bug reports as resolved. You are aware that the bug history is kept? You .. "twisted" it. This bug was tagged invalid with comment #1 and the "worksforme" tag to the other bug went along comment #10 with a detailed explanation and before this bug was even filed. The claim on having the extra icon was commented #7 (in the other bug) - followed by your first comments on why icons are important (and actually before marking this invalid in the light of the other bug) (In reply to comment #17) > By the way, by "available" I meant ... And by "drama queen" i meant exaggeration like "broken, unusable or both"... (aditsu 2 english: "i don't like it") > Anyway, I downloaded it (with great difficulty) ... You cannot install the patch as is - you need to have scaling/contents/ui/main.qml and scaling/metadata.desktop zip the scaling folder, name it scaling.kwinswitcher and can then just install it via the GHNS GUI. Andre "refused" to ship it this way, so i won't either - in doubt just contact him for a private package transfer.
(In reply to comment #18) > I didn't want a proof on "we don't care" but meant to say you're proving > your attitude. Yes, I'm upset, with good reasons. If you wanna insist on calling me a drama queen, go ahead, I just don't know what you're hoping to achieve. > the thumbnail switcher > pretty much seems to have the functionality the boxswitch effect had. The greatest problem with the thumbnail switcher (which I already mentioned) is that it doesn't show all the windows. The 2nd greatest problem is that it doesn't show icons on the thumbnails, it only shows the icon for the current selected window. Another problem that I didn't mention before (might be new in 4.10? not sure) is that when the "top" window is black, the caption in the switcher is invisible. > https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/109832/ shows that there more effective > ways to deal with this than yours. More effective mainly for you, as it means the user is doing your work instead of you. Not everybody wants to be a kde developer. I'm guessing Andre put a lot of work into this, which I really appreciate, but you can't expect everybody to take this approach. Do you write your own fixes for all the bugs you find in open source software? > You are aware that the bug history is kept? > You .. "twisted" it. Yes of course it's kept. The things I listed may not have happened in exact chronological order, but they happened nevertheless. > This bug was tagged invalid with comment #1 and the "worksforme" tag to the > other bug went along comment #10 with a detailed explanation and before this > bug was even filed. This only goes to support my point even more - you dismissed this bug before hearing any argument. "What? Box switch? No, you can't have that, bye bye!" > The claim on having the extra icon was commented #7 (in the other bug) - > followed by your first comments on why icons are important (and actually > before marking this invalid in the light of the other bug) This is quite confusing... not sure what's your point, and I'd rather focus on this bug, as I only learned about the other one today. > (In reply to comment #17) > And by "drama queen" i meant exaggeration like "broken, unusable or both"... > (aditsu 2 english: "i don't like it") Ok, if black rectangles, invisible icons, invisible captions, extremely tiny icons, extremely enormous icons, and various other things, all mean "I don't like it", then so be it. > You cannot install the patch as is - you need to have > scaling/contents/ui/main.qml > and > scaling/metadata.desktop Yes that is the structure I made. > zip the scaling folder, name it scaling.kwinswitcher and can then just > install it via the GHNS GUI. What's GHNS? > Andre "refused" to ship it this way, so i won't either - in doubt just > contact him for a private package transfer. I'll wait for your reply first.
(In reply to comment #19) > Yes, I'm upset Yes. > with good reasons. No. > More effective mainly for you No, i'm completely untouched by this. > as it means the user is doing your work instead of you. a) it's certainly not "my" work. b) it's not martin's work either - he's apparently totally fine w/ the present solution c) degrading Andre from "Interested developer" to "user" will probably not get you his assistance. > Do you write your own fixes for all the bugs you find in open source > software? If it bothers me? Sure. (Doesn't mean i always attempt to move them upstream though. Esp. not behavioral "bugs" - Bespin eg. has an entire section called "hacks" what does nothing but "fixing" applications) > The things I listed may not have happened in exact chronological order Maybe lookup the exact meaning of "twist" > This only goes to support my point even more - you dismissed this bug before > hearing any argument. The bug was "I can enable "box switch" in the desktop effects" - there was no expectation for any "argument" when I informed you this switcher was gone and the effect deprecated. > "What? Box switch? No, you can't have that, bye bye!" Were that my words? You *are* a drama queen - and i start getting annoyed by it. > This is quite confusing... not sure what's your point I was fixing your claimed reason. Surprisingly order is pretty much important when claiming history to proof the claim of lack of interest. > > (In reply to comment #17) > > And by "drama queen" i meant exaggeration like "broken, unusable or both"... > > (aditsu 2 english: "i don't like it") > Ok, if black rectangles what "black rectangles"? > invisible icons, invisible captions, extremely tiny > icons, extremely enormous icons, and various other things, all mean "I > don't like it", then so be it. invisible, tiny, enormous actually means "contraditive" - but the question is whether whatever you "describe" here means "broken" or "unusable". > What's GHNS? GetHotNewStuff (yes, buzz - not my choice) - it's the installation GUI in the switcher config dialog - just run plasmapkg -t windowswitcher -i scaling.kwinswitcher
(In reply to comment #20) > > with good reasons. > No. Ok this isn't going anywhere. > a) it's certainly not "my" work. > b) it's not martin's work either - he's apparently totally fine w/ the > present solution It would be (your or your colleagues' work) if you cared about the users and tried to fix the bug. Of course you guys are fine with it, otherwise you wouldn't have killed the functionality. > c) degrading Andre from "Interested developer" to "user" will probably not > get you his assistance. So once he starts developing things, he stops being a user? I don't see how it's degrading in any way, I didn't say "luser" or anything like that. Maybe look up the exact meaning of "user". > > Do you write your own fixes for all the bugs you find in open source > > software? > If it bothers me? Sure. That's great. However, I don't have time to do that, and most users are not able to do that. That's why bug reports were invented. > > "What? Box switch? No, you can't have that, bye bye!" > Were that my words? You *are* a drama queen - and i start getting annoyed by > it. That is my interpretation of comment 1 (dropped = no, you can't have that, resolved/invalid = bye bye). Anyway, don't want to write even more about it. > what "black rectangles"? I'll add a screenshot > invisible, tiny, enormous actually means "contraditive" Not in the same layout or not at the same time > - but the question > is whether whatever you "describe" here means "broken" or "unusable". Invisible things would count as broken in my opinion. Tiny icons would be unusable (which you will probably dispute). > plasmapkg -t windowswitcher -i scaling.kwinswitcher Thanks a lot, I got it working now. The layout has some issues, but it's a very good start.
Created attachment 79038 [details] Example of black rectangle in flip switch
Do you still have the tabbox keys enabled in your config?
... "boxswitch" keys...
(In reply to comment #24) Not sure what you mean. Maybe this answers it? % grep -i box ~/.kde4/share/config/kwinrc -C 2 Rows=1 [Effect-BoxSwitch] TabBox=false TabBoxAlternative=false [Effect-CoverSwitch] TabBox=false TabBoxAlternative=false [Effect-FlipSwitch] TabBox=false TabBoxAlternative=false [Effect-Zoom] -- desktopchangeosdEnabled=false kwin4_effect_blurEnabled=true kwin4_effect_boxswitchEnabled=true kwin4_effect_coverswitchEnabled=true kwin4_effect_cubeEnabled=true -- ShowToolTips=true [TabBox] ActivitiesMode=1 ApplicationsMode=0 -- ShowDesktopMode=0 ShowOutline=true ShowTabBox=true SwitchingMode=0 [TabBoxAlternative] ActivitiesMode=1 ApplicationsMode=0 -- ShowDesktopMode=0 ShowOutline=true ShowTabBox=true SwitchingMode=0
Sorry, i clicked on the "edit" link what got me a cropped shot. That actually looks like the window caption - the "black in black" and the huge dimension would (for now) be theme dependent - what plasma theme do you use??
(In reply to comment #26) > what plasma theme do you use?? Desktop theme = Air Window decorations = Oxygen
Note: in that screenshot you can see the gimp icon, but sometimes the rectangle is fully black.
(In reply to comment #27) > (In reply to comment #26) > > what plasma theme do you use?? > Desktop theme = Air Ok, it's not supposed to look like this. Do the tabboxes look equally stupid ("black frame with black text") then? This (flipswitch) looks like either a GL bug ("black windows" - eg. invalid textures; do you use the blur effect?) or a failed theme installation (tried installing and switching to some fancy 3rd party theme?)
(In reply to comment #29) > Do the tabboxes look equally stupid ("black frame with black text") then? What do you mean by tabboxes? I think flip switch is the only layout where I noticed this particular problem (other layouts are broken in different ways) > This (flipswitch) looks like either a GL bug ("black windows" - eg. invalid > textures; do you use the blur effect?) Blur is enabled in desktop effects. I turned it off -> fully black rectangle in flip switch. Turned it on again -> rectangle is not black anymore, but icons in the rectangle are rendered as black squares (for most windows). > or a failed theme installation (tried > installing and switching to some fancy 3rd party theme?) Not really, not on this computer as far as I recall.
(In reply to comment #30) > What do you mean by tabboxes? Eg. the "Thumbnails" switcher. It uses the same frame as the caption in flipswitch. So what does it look like for you then? > Blur is enabled in desktop effects. I turned it off -> fully black rectangle > in flip switch. Turned it on again -> rectangle is not black anymore, but > icons in the rectangle are rendered as black squares (for most windows). please attach the output of "qdbus org.kde.kwin /KWin supportInformation" (ensure compositing is active when running this)
What is the status of the black squares? If it is still happening, please add the information requested in comment #31.
Hi, sorry for the delay. I'm using KDE 4.10.4 now btw. (In reply to comment #31) > Eg. the "Thumbnails" switcher. It uses the same frame as the caption in > flipswitch. So what does it look like for you then? The Thumbnails layout seems to look ok now (but is pretty much unusable because it only shows a few thumbnails at a time). Flip switch still shows a black rectangle, and various other layouts show black squares instead of icons. > please attach the output of "qdbus org.kde.kwin /KWin supportInformation" > (ensure compositing is active when running this) The only compositing setting I found says OpenGL. I'll attach the output.
Created attachment 81106 [details] kwin support information
"kcmshell4 kwincompositing", 3rd tab. try using the "raster" graphicssystem
(In reply to comment #35) > "kcmshell4 kwincompositing", 3rd tab. try using the "raster" graphicssystem Hmm, that seems to fix the rendering issues (what's wrong with the native graphics system? I remember also having lots of problems with that on another computer with nvidia drivers). Of course, the usability issues still remain.
(In reply to comment #36) > (In reply to comment #35) > > "kcmshell4 kwincompositing", 3rd tab. try using the "raster" graphicssystem > > what's wrong with the native graphics system? Rendering quality (partially) relies on the driver - this here seems to somewhere lack an XSync, though. And i've not seen such so far either. If you run KWin from konsole (with native graphicssystem) and trigger flip switch, are there afterwards some X11 error messages? > I remember also having lots of problems with that on another computer with nvidia drivers). Different matter, the nvidia blob has issues with allocating 32bit pixmaps (it's slow for some ominous reason) > Of course, the usability issues still remain. Yes, of course ... and given bug resolution ever will. Has the graphicssystem also visual impact on the tabboxes
(In reply to comment #37) > If you run KWin from konsole (with native graphicssystem) and trigger flip > switch, are there afterwards some X11 error messages? I get a bunch of "failed to create drawable" > > Of course, the usability issues still remain. > Yes, of course ... and given bug resolution ever will. Not sure what you mean by this, but anyway, you've made it quite clear that you never intend to fix these bugs, as you simply don't care. That's quite depressing. At least if you could add a medium-icons layout, and/or improve some of the other ones (such as arrow keys in Grid, and left alignment/length limit in Informative), then it would help a little bit. > Has the graphicssystem also visual impact on the tabboxes If you mean the Thumbnails layout, I'm not seeing any difference now. I seem to remember some rendering problems before, such as invisible caption for my black konsole, but they were either fixed in (or before) version 4.10.4, or are just not happening anymore. Also, I'm currently getting an error message "24 desktop effects could not be loaded" every time I change the graphics system (never seen this error before). It doesn't seem to cause any extra problems though.
(In reply to comment #38) > I get a bunch of "failed to create drawable" Ok, thanks. That would explain that there's some black content (though atm. can't say why) > Not sure what you mean by this, but anyway, you've made it quite clear that It means that this bug was closed invalid, as the boxswitch effect will not return since it was a giant collection of bugs and given your completely unreasonable wording about murder and similar nonsense on that incident, you will forever and what unreasonable reason ever take this as a personal offense for the rest of your life. > you never intend to fix these bugs, as you simply don't care. That's quite > depressing. "my personal favor does not exist" is not a bug. it's a task - for you. With the base falls the claim about care. (Which in the used general form - "you don't care" lacks an "about" - is still just playing drama queen) > such as arrow keys in Grid Is actually supported (at least in 4.11) > and left alignment You can /easily/ deviate the switcher, replace "Center" with "Left" and have that. The choice about such (mostly) aesthetic things is somewhere done between "who wrote it", key artists and human interface group - "aditsu said" is simply not considered. > length limit in Informative I'm not sure what you mean by this. Esp. not as all your other requests point a full window list being shown. > then it would help a little bit. "A little bit" Look, you actually have the opportunity to craft the switcher that serves you best and pleases you most. You don't really have to be able to write code for that, QML is nearly fool-proof - and slight deviations from existing switcher should not be a hard task. Had you not decided to play the drama queen but came up with "here i've an idea for many improvements for tabboxes, can you help me to realize them" you probably long time had them, but you prefer to exxagerate and insult and make ppl. feel guilty - and that does simply not work here around. Actually i know few constellations where it would. > be loaded" every time I change the graphics system (never seen this error > before). It doesn't seem to cause any extra problems though. False positive. The dialog fails to contact kwin (it's restarted) and believes the compositor doesn't work. https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108361/