Version: (using KDE Devel) Installed from: Compiled sources In KDE4 there are per default only 4 keyboard shortcuts defined for switching between virtual desktops (ctrl-F1 etc). In correspondence with the default amount of virtual desktops. I think this is wonderful :) When I use the kcm to alter the amount of virtual desktops to something larger than 4 I run into the problem that there is no key to switch to them. When the keyboard-shortcut kcm becomes available I could probably manually alter this, but I think that would be a bad user experience. I suggest to automatically allocate new keyboard shortcuts when the amount of virtual desktops goes up.
I also realized there are a some missing desktop switching shortcuts. Personally I miss the followings: - Switch to Next Desktop - Switch to Previous Desktop - Switch one Desktop to the Right - Switch one Desktop to the Left - Switch one Desktop Up - Switch one Desktop Down Please implement these. I have to switch the desktops with mouse click on the pager. It's nice, however switching with keyboard is more effective than clicking with mouse.
Please do not clutter other bugreports with unrelated problems.
I strongly agree with the original bug report. I believe that this is a regression from KDE 3, thus might be classified as a bug rather than as a wish. Overall, this should simply be configurable somewhere. Some people might want to use CTRL+F... shortcuts for other purposes (e.g. Firefox already reacts to CTRL+F5 with a page reload).
> I believe that this is a regression from KDE 3, thus might be classified as a > bug rather than as a wish. Overall, this should simply be configurable > somewhere. Um... it is configurable? Meta-6 switches to desktop 6 over here. The original report seems to be that more than four shortcuts should be set up /by default/ (or dynamically set up as the number of desktops is changed). I think having 4 set up was also default in KDE3, so there is no regression.
Changing this usability bug to a low-prio wishlist makes me a bit sad; I think usability is quite important even for the window manager. Please reconsider giving it a bit of a higher priority.
If it bothers you, maybe you could offer a patch? I'd guess this probably isn't too hard to fix.
(In reply to comment #5) It's been given a "low" priority in accordance to KWin's bug triaging rules. A priority of "normal" means it hasn't been triaged yet and both "high" and "very high" mean it's a blocker for the next release, thus "low" is the highest priority that can be given to this.
*** Bug 187952 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 197992 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
IMHO having more default-shortcuts that "do nothing" in the default setup is bad. Apart from that it'll take away these shortcuts from applications as it would be a global shortcut. What should be done instead is making it clearer that you need to add these shortcuts (or even auto-add them) when increasing the number of desktops. Increasing the number of default-shortcuts is just a workaround for the missing inter-connection in the GUI between shortcuts and the config to increase desktop-number. BTW: KDE3 had 4 desktops enabled by default (as does KDE4) but had shortcuts for F1-F10, but IMHO thats not good as default.
Re #10 the case I was thinking off is that the kcm for kwin automatically inserts those shortcuts when the user creates more shortcuts. But since you are here, maybe we can collaborate on a separate solution; The kde-global shortcuts kcm shows, and warns about, duplicates always, which IMOHO is a separate but related bug. Let me explain why; The ideal solution is likely that kwin just per default ships with 10 actions and F1-F10 bound to them. But it disables the actions it doesn't use. (i.e. F5-F10 in the default case of 4 desktops). Disabled actions don't cause conflicts, you see :)
SVN commit 995230 by graesslin: Rework of the multiple desktops kcm. Now it uses a ui file which makes it easier to maintain. It brings together all options for multiple desktops. That is: * number of desktops * pager layout * activity per desktop * desktop names * desktop effect for switching animation * OSD on desktop switch * Shortcuts for desktop changing The plasma options (pager and activity) are still missing and currently disabled. FEATURE: 129605 CCBUG: 153799 M +2 -1 CMakeLists.txt D desktop.cpp D desktop.h A desktopnameswidget.cpp [License: GPL (v2+)] A desktopnameswidget.h [License: GPL (v2+)] A main.cpp [License: GPL (v2+)] A main.h [License: GPL (v2+)] A main.ui WebSVN link: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=995230
(In reply to comment #12) > Rework of the multiple desktops kcm. > * Shortcuts for desktop changing There is a shortcut editor for desktop switching now in the same dialog used for changing the number of desktops. It only includes the shortcuts for the actual number of configured desktops. That is if you have 5 desktops, you will have the options to change shortcuts for switching to desktop 1 to 5, but not for 6 to 20. It does not set default shortcuts for added desktops. That is if you want to have more than four desktops you still have to define the shortcut. But it's now very easy to do so. You don't have to go to another kcm and you don't have to search for it. Please decide if that solves this wish list item.
*** Bug 203320 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
(In reply to comment #10) > IMHO having more default-shortcuts that "do nothing" in the default setup is > bad. Apart from that it'll take away these shortcuts from applications as it > would be a global shortcut. and that is IMO a good thing consider the abovementioned Firefox and Ctrl+F5 to reload - as far as I remember, F5 or Ctrl+R was used for reload, so using Ctrl+F5 a) breaks a longstanding "standard" b) creates a conflict for people who would like to use more desktops and use the Ctrl+Fn scheme, which is even older "standard" so, preassigning Ctrl+F5 may prevent such troubles - I believe that the global shortcuts may be overruled (no? - is a bug reported for it?) so it won't affect those who really want to configure Firefox to use Ctrl+F5, but would cause much less trouble to those who rely on the "standard" shortcuts in general, it is a good thing to have shortcuts consistent between different systems ... that's why we, the translators, try to keep the same accesskeys as in English, for example, and this is basically the same case (In reply to comment #13) > It does not set default shortcuts for added desktops. That is if you want to > have more than four desktops you still have to define the shortcut. But it's > now very easy to do so. You don't have to go to another kcm and you don't have > to search for it. > > Please decide if that solves this wish list item. no, it does not resolve the reasons why I filed bug 203320 that was marked duplicate of this
(In reply to comment #15) > (In reply to comment #10) > > IMHO having more default-shortcuts that "do nothing" in the default setup is > > bad. Apart from that it'll take away these shortcuts from applications as it > > would be a global shortcut. > > and that is IMO a good thing No its not, because then app developers have to invent rather useless shortcuts like Ctrl+Shift+Meta+Alt+F to do something because they run out of shortcuts. Not to mention that some shortcuts are well-established among certain kind of applications (for example Fx-shortcuts are wide-spread among IDE's to drive the debugger). > consider the abovementioned Firefox and Ctrl+F5 to reload - > as far as I remember, F5 or Ctrl+R was used for reload, so using Ctrl+F5 > a) breaks a longstanding "standard" There's no standard on shortcuts. However all browsers I regurlarly use have Ctrl+<reload-shortcut> bound to reload without cache (i.e. deleting their cache for this page), which is very useful. And the default shortcut for reloading in KDE is F5 since a long time, hence Ctrl+F5 for reloading with clean cache. > b) creates a conflict for people who would like to use more desktops and use > the Ctrl+Fn scheme, which is even older "standard" Again, there's no standard on shortcuts. KDE3 had this, but that was a mistake (IMHO) and we should do better in KDE4. > so, preassigning Ctrl+F5 may prevent such troubles No it does not, it only takes away a useful and "short" shortcut from any user that doesn't use virtual desktops or uses only 4 of them. And I'm relatively sure that quite a bit of KDE's userbase doesn't even know about virtual desktops. > - I believe that the global > shortcuts may be overruled (no? - is a bug reported for it?) so it won't affect No, because that would be completely beside the use-case of global shortcuts. The idea is that they're always overriding whatever the application has configured. > those who really want to configure Firefox to use Ctrl+F5, but would cause much > less trouble to those who rely on the "standard" shortcuts See above, there exists no standard on shortcuts, only "what other apps do". > in general, it is a good thing to have shortcuts consistent between different > systems ... that's why we, the translators, try to keep the same accesskeys as > in English, for example, and this is basically the same case I don't see what this has to do with the wish, having Ctrl+F1-F4 assigned to switch between the first 4 desktops is consistent on all default-installations of KDE. As no default installation of KDE has more than 4 virtual desktops, there's no point in having more default-setup shortcuts as they're completely useless. > (In reply to comment #13) > > It does not set default shortcuts for added desktops. That is if you want to > > have more than four desktops you still have to define the shortcut. But it's > > now very easy to do so. You don't have to go to another kcm and you don't have > > to search for it. > > > > Please decide if that solves this wish list item. > > no, it does not resolve the reasons why I filed bug 203320 that was marked > duplicate of this It actually does help, because it makes it reminds you that you might need to setup a shortcut for the new desktop. I also think it would be even nicer if a new shortcut is automatically added if you add more desktops. However the default setup after the initial installation should only reserve as many shortcuts as are useful in this default installation.
(In reply to comment #16) > No its not, because then app developers have to invent rather useless > shortcuts like Ctrl+Shift+Meta+Alt+F to do something because they run out of > shortcuts. oh well, how could I have existed so many years using KDE 3, that assigned Ctrl+F1..F10, without touching Ctrl+Shift+Meta+Alt together? and what about the poor text-mode applications that have to live with the fact that kernel (or what?) uses Alt+F8 to switch to terminal 8 while most of the distros have only 6 terminals active by default? > Not to mention that some shortcuts are well-established among certain kind of > applications (for example Fx-shortcuts are wide-spread among IDE's to drive > the debugger). could you please elaborate on this, i.e. name at least a few actions+applications for each Ctrl+F5 to Ctrl+F12 shortcut, and the numbers of users of these? > > consider the abovementioned Firefox and Ctrl+F5 to reload - > > as far as I remember, F5 or Ctrl+R was used for reload, so using Ctrl+F5 > > a) breaks a longstanding "standard" > > There's no standard on shortcuts. well, that is why I consistently use quotation marks - I know there is no standard (to be precise I do not know about existence of such a standard) pointing that out and repeating that three times just makes you look like not having any real arguments, if you have to focus on what you consider inappropriate word usage instead of the point behind that > However all browsers I regurlarly use have Ctrl+<reload-shortcut> bound to > reload without cache (i.e. deleting their cache for this page), which is very > useful. oh well, I see that I have to improve my education, because I thought that the cache of the page is invalidated on each reload request, otherwise I do not see any point in doing reload which just re-reads data from the local memory/disk but that just strenghtens my belief that it is a good idea to discourage application authors from overloading system shortcuts, because ... > And the default shortcut for reloading in > KDE is F5 since a long time, hence Ctrl+F5 for reloading with clean cache. ... default shortcut to switch to desktop 5 is Ctrl+F5 since much longer time, if I get it correct, long before anything like "Web Browser" even existed > > b) creates a conflict for people who would like to use more desktops and > > use the Ctrl+Fn scheme, which is even older "standard" > > Again, there's no standard on shortcuts. see above ... > KDE3 had this, but that was a mistake no, it was a useful feature > (IMHO) and we should do better in KDE4. read: we should cripple KDE4 even more, because after the disaster with 4.0, users slowly find KDE 4.2-4.3 usable, so it is time to break more features that were OK in KDE 3 ;-) > > so, preassigning Ctrl+F5 may prevent such troubles > > No it does not, it only takes away a useful and "short" shortcut from any > user that doesn't use virtual desktops or uses only 4 of them. in turn, not reserving that shortcut 'only takes away useful and "short" shortcut from any user that uses more than 4 virtual desktops' > And I'm relatively sure that quite a bit of KDE's userbase doesn't even know > about virtual desktops. then default to one and disabling all the switching shortcuts - until you do that, it is only hypocrisy to argue that people do not use the feature while leaving it enabled by default (and, from my experience, not a good statistical data, but still interesting, virtually no one using more than one desktop sticks with just four of them) oh, wait, wasn't that GNOME which started cuting features not to let the user to be confused by them? :) > > - I believe that the global > > shortcuts may be overruled (no? - is a bug reported for it?) so it won't affect > > No, because that would be completely beside the use-case of global shortcuts. > The idea is that they're always overriding whatever the application has > configured. that is desinterpretation, I've meant the default changed, not that the application specific should take precedence to the global ... > See above, there exists no standard on shortcuts, only "what other apps do". again ... ... > I don't see what this has to do with the wish, having Ctrl+F1-F4 assigned to > switch between the first 4 desktops is consistent on all > default-installations of KDE. have you ever noticed that there exist more environments than just KDE? - hell, have you noticed there exist more KDE versions than just KDE4, so if KDE3 has it differently, you can't even say that it is consisten on "all KDE"? > As no default installation of KDE has more than 4 virtual desktops, > there's no point in having more default-setup shortcuts as they're completely > useless. there is no point only if you just choose to ignore that there is a point ... no matter what I have said before, the mere existence of this report and it duplicates proves that there is a point, at least for some of the users (some that are not so lazy to report/vote in KDE bugzilla) > > (In reply to comment #13) ... > > no, it does not resolve the reasons why I filed bug 203320 that was marked > > duplicate of this > > It actually does help, because it makes it reminds you that you might need to > setup a shortcut for the new desktop. as above, please try to follow the point ... which is, in this case, that the system does not behave as expected, as used to in previous version (while regressions are usually considered a bad thing), not that I need a guide to setup my keyboard (the way I have written it is just to illustrate how much do I consider all the desktop switching shortcuts natural ...) > I also think it would be even nicer if a > new shortcut is automatically added if you add more desktops. this sounds like an agreeable compromise
(In reply to comment #17) > > KDE3 had this, but that was a mistake > > no, it was a useful feature The one's man bug is the other man's feature. I think you can only agree on disagree in that point. That said: I think it is totally stupid to have global shortcuts for actions which do nothing by default. Let's face it: having ten virtual desktops is a poweruser feature. The user who is able to change the number of desktop is also able to set the additional shortcut. Please have a look some comments above with my svn commit: it is now configurable from the same kcm, you just have to change the tab. That's about three to five mouse clicks (I haven't counted). I also want to remind that ctrl+f8 is desktop grid, ctrl+f10 and f11 are present windows, ctrl+f11 is cube (which isn't enabled by default, so already wasting a shortcut but given the cube's userbase acceptable) and ctrl+f12 is the Plasma dashboard. Which shortcuts should we use? ctrl+f5 to f7. Is that any good idea? And about the stealing shortcuts from applications: I wanted to switch to fullscreen in kdevelop some time ago and instead of fullscreen I got the cylinder effect. My reaction was: oh shit, I stole a shortcut with a useless effect and the next day I unset the shortcut and backported it to 4.3.0 so that no harm was done. With the change to the kcm I either consider this wish as implemented or a wontfix. Please choose :-)
The original post was about auto-expanding the shortcuts, what includes some heuristics about the used shortcut system (that doesn't have to be ctrl+fx - could also be alt+fx [as alt tends to be the
> With the change to the kcm I either consider this wish as implemented > or a wontfix. Please choose :-) Unfortunately kavol has been using this bugreport for a subthread thats completely off topic here and confuses the issue greatly. Please re-read the original post and post #11 for what this bug really is about. Thomas L. in #19 got it too. I'll change the bug-subject to make it clearer too. I don't think its fair to close it after the change as it may have become easier for the user to fix this manually I think its totally doable to automate it. Saying the user can fix the issue manually more easy feels like bad usability to me.
(In reply to comment #20) > Unfortunately kavol has been using this bugreport for a subthread thats > completely off topic here and confuses the issue greatly. sorry, but as long as bug 203320 is marked duplicate of this, I'm *on* topic while I'd be perfectly happy with your suggestion, the problem that I am talking about won't magically vanish - if people start using ancient shortcuts for new features, you end up with a very unpleasant user experience (In reply to comment #18) > (In reply to comment #17) > > > KDE3 had this, but that was a mistake > > > > no, it was a useful feature > The one's man bug is the other man's feature. I think you can only agree on > disagree in that point. well, while I don't see any report against KDE 3 that it has too many desktop switching shortcuts, I see *several* reports against KDE 4 that it has too few shortcuts - while the personal views can differ, you can hardly argue for the whole userbase > That said: I think it is totally stupid to have global shortcuts for actions > which do nothing by default. Let's face it: having ten virtual desktops is a > poweruser feature. once upon a time, we were told a fairytale, that KDE is for powerusers ... > The user who is able to change the number of desktop is also > able to set the additional shortcut. yes, and the user who is able to set the additional shortcut is surely able to read some docs, to learn programming, to keep his own patchset for the features that the developers refuse to add ... :) > Please have a look some comments above with my svn commit: it is now > configurable from the same kcm, you just have to change the tab. That's about > three to five mouse clicks (I haven't counted). ok, so please count the mouse clicks, count the number of KDE users that use more than four desktops (or better the number of times they do need to make the change), now multiply these numbers and compare the result to the time that would be needed to fix bugs 197992 or 203320 - until you do that, your argument "it is incredibly easy" does not make any sense > I also want to remind that ctrl+f8 is desktop grid, ctrl+f10 and f11 are > present windows, Ctrl+F8 does nothing on my system by default, the same goes for Ctrl+F10, Ctrl+F11 and Ctrl+F12 - ah, there has to be something rotten with it or with Fedora packages ... > ctrl+f11 is cube (which isn't enabled by default, so already > wasting a shortcut but given the cube's userbase acceptable) oh, I can't believe my eyes ... you just throw away your main argument when it suits you to? could you provide the numbers? - again, my experience, which is a bad statistical example, says, that I have never seen anybody really using the cube effect except for recording a youtube videos how KDE is cool ... > And about the stealing shortcuts from applications: I wanted to switch to > fullscreen in kdevelop some time ago and instead of fullscreen I got the > cylinder effect. My reaction was: oh shit, I stole a shortcut with a useless > effect and the next day I unset the shortcut and backported it to 4.3.0 so > that no harm was done. oh yes, and that is exactly what I want you to do - don't steal shortcuts with useless effects ...
> > Unfortunately kavol has been using this bugreport for a subthread thats > > completely off topic here and confuses the issue greatly. > sorry, but as long as bug 203320 is marked duplicate of this, I'm *on* topic Actually, no, you are arguing with a kwin developer about a kde-wide policy that affects all apps and has been discussed on a mailinglist like kde-core-devel. > once upon a time, we were told a fairytale, that KDE is for powerusers ... You making fun of kwin developers will not change his mind and will certainly not change the decision that was made kde-wide. As you stated and restated your case here, and not gotten much developer support I suggest you try elsewhere.
(In reply to comment #21) > sorry, but as long as bug 203320 is marked duplicate of this, I'm *on* topic No you're not. If /your/ bug 203320 in your eyes and after the clarification mismatches this one, the dupe was falsely applied and you may revert it and reopen your bug, maybe explain why it's /not/ a dupe and stress this by a more specific bug name. Claiming to be oN topic because this is the least oFF topic report is ridiculous. So if your bug is about "Please keep preserve longtime global shortcuts" while this is (now clearly) about "Additional virtual desktops should automagically get a shortcut assigned" do as said above and regarding my previous comment assign the bug to KDE or usability and stop spamming this bug report with unrelated (and btw. pretty lame - if you really need an explanation for each your "arguements" you may contact me directly or collect them in the other bug report and wwit a response) rhetoric attempts. Thank you.
(In reply to comment #22) > Actually, no, you are arguing with a kwin developer about a kde-wide policy > that affects all apps and has been discussed on a mailinglist like > kde-core-devel. please could you provide the relevant links? > > once upon a time, we were told a fairytale, that KDE is for powerusers ... > > You making fun of kwin developers will not change his mind and will certainly > not change the decision that was made kde-wide. and what can I result to if someone is making fools of me? > As you stated and restated your case here, and not gotten much developer > support I suggest you try elsewhere. discouraging KDE contributors doesn't look very smart to me ... (In reply to comment #23) > So if your bug is about "Please keep preserve longtime global shortcuts" > while this is (now clearly) about "Additional virtual desktops should > automagically get a shortcut assigned" do as said above and regarding my > previous comment assign the bug to KDE or usability and stop spamming this > bug report with unrelated you really do not see the problem with this bug, that if you want to assign shortcuts automagically, you have to have them free, not causing other assigments stop working? > (and btw. pretty lame - if you really need an explanation for each > your "arguements" you may contact me directly or collect them in the other > bug report and wwit a response) rhetoric attempts. please stop this fallacy if an explanation exists, it may be written or linked here, no need to use secret personal communication, or to refer to unspecified sources - there's close to nothing more on those reports than that was repeated here (and that can be represented mainly by this comment: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197992#c10 - response to which is based mainly on argument of ignorance (burden of proof)) btw, regarding https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197992#c11 - I do not know about any good survey, Google doesn't like my queries, but here's at least one: http://www.abclinuxu.cz/ankety/show/82167 it asks "How many desktops you use in graphical environment?" (note "use", not "have configured") and I guess there's no need to translate the answers ... the group of respondents aren't just KDE users (oh, and it's four years old), so we cannot conclude anything from it, but still I find it very interesting - I wonder if more than 18% (= 16+2) of people really use the cube and what else was listed for example here: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=187952#c1
i do see your "problem". It is just entirely unrelated to this very bug report (and does not even belong to the scope of KWin). This is not a discussion board, but a bugtracker. Therefore i will NOT respond to your "arguments" (you could improve your erristics by even just reading aristoteles) /here/ - spamming this bug even more. We can have such discussion on a specific bug report or a mailing list or by private mails - and you may then post my mails wherver you want (except here... ;-P) To make it very clear: Whether your global shortcut policy request is valid or not is not the point. It's your trollish behaviour of spamming a foreign bug report / wish with some flame. That is /not/ helpfull by any means - unless you take any gain out of trolling.
There are no trolls here, move along. kavol is backing up his points and is attempting to debate his point. Doing a quick search over my entire mailing list backlogs I cannot see any discussion about shortcuts for virtual desktops 5+. From what I found everything has been discussed in these bug reports. My opinion on the matter as a KWin developer is that the shortcuts should not be automatically added as they conflict with others that are new to KDE 4, as well as various applications. I personally use Ctrl+F5 for Firefox's force refresh, Ctrl+F8 as KWin's desktop grid, Ctrl+F9 and F10 as present windows and Ctrl+F12 as Plasma's dashboard. As those shortcuts I listed above are defining features of KDE 4 (Except Firefox of cause) we simply cannot just change them, even if what we have done is caused a regression from KDE 3. Out of the two possibilities: 1) Have a regression from KDE 3, or 2) Cause conflicts with existing KDE 4 shortcuts, I believe that the first choice is the least worst of the two. As it has been mentioned the KWin configuration panels have been updated to make setting the shortcuts easier in KDE 4.4. This shortcut editor also warns you if you are about to override an existing shortcut which is very nice feedback for the user and informs them with what they are getting themselves in to.
Though not about VDs in special, search k-c-d for "F11"... Ok, my last 2¢ A) the OP clarified that he just asked for a more convenient way to attach shortcuts to VD - not reserving them -> 1. bug #203320 is a dupe of #197922 (despite the last paragraph in comment #17 which differs from the later argumentation and the last argument in #203320 OP) 2. #187952 is a dupe of this 3. #203320 & #197922 are weak related but definitly no dupes of this and #187952 therefore i strongly suggest to reopen #197922 for the discussion about preassigning global shortcuts to VDs and mark #203320 as dupe of it. B) regarding #197922 & #203320 1. Most of the "lost" global shortcuts are currently preassigned to KWin functions that may be assumed to be of more interest for the common man. Therefore the "app devs could abuse them locally" argument does not hold. 2. Even if an application introduces such collision (despite and ignoring also other WMs), KWin allows a rule to prevent global shortcuts on specific windows. Therefore a (even hardcoded) ctrl+F11 can be used to [do local stuff] and still change the desktop as long as that windows doesn't have the kbd focus. So the local abuse isn't such a hard threat (regarding KWin) 3. The ability to redefine your shortcut system is no way taken, therefore you can restore the former behaviour. So this isn't really a regression. 4. Given VDs (and esp. > 4) are most likely used by more experienced users who will be able to adjust their system rather "in the meantime" and probably already run a more customized setup, the current assignement will largely lower the global usertime to setup the shortcuts. (Therefore kavol's calculation in #21 is simply invalid as it compares usertime with developing time, even despite the fact that there is no argument about "being to hard to implement"...) C) Aside from all this and i dare to be OT: kavol's argumentation method clearly /is/ eristic. For a simple example: He took my request to discuss his "arguments" (i still claim them to be eristic by intent) as used in e.g. #21 under a separate bug ID or by mail "you may contact me directly or collect them in the other bug report and wwit [sic! should have been "await"] a response" and made it: "no need to use secret personal communication, or to refer to unspecified sources" i.e. he simply dropped the "other bug" part and implied secrecy into "contact me directly" (what is a shift of meaning) and just attached uspecified resources from an entire different post. If you wish, i'll deconstruct each of his erristics (i mean that seriously, but it's gonna be a long text. you also may post the deconstruction wherever you want and ask for feedback from rhetoric experts ;-) (One may also want tot look for a translation of Schopenhauer's Aristoteles adaption "Eristische Dialektik" to lookup what i mean.) Eristic argumentation is however by design not productive, but just used to defend your points in a rhetoric way - and that's trolling ;-)
sorry for the double and now triple post :-(
SVN commit 1011934 by luebking: BUG: 153799 BUG: 187952 CCBUG: 197992 CCBUG: 203320 extrapolate and (if available) set shortcuts for new virtual desktops automatically M +79 -18 main.cpp M +1 -0 main.h M +15 -0 main.ui WebSVN link: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=1011934