Bug 158249 - use alt atribute in konqueror when images are disabled instead of white-ish icons
Summary: use alt atribute in konqueror when images are disabled instead of white-ish i...
Status: CONFIRMED
Alias: None
Product: konqueror
Classification: Applications
Component: khtml (show other bugs)
Version: 4.13.2
Platform: Gentoo Packages Linux
: NOR normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Konqueror Developers
URL:
Keywords: accessibility, testcase
: 48458 124545 170069 276839 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2008-02-23 00:51 UTC by Clara García
Modified: 2014-07-29 15:14 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In:
myriam: Usability+


Attachments

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.
Description Clara García 2008-02-23 00:51:55 UTC
Version:            (using KDE 3.5.7)
Installed from:    Gentoo Packages
Compiler:          gcc-1.4.0-r2 
OS:                Linux

I searched about this problem and I found this bug:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75968

But it says it is a duplicated and sent me to:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49910

But this one says again it is a duplicated and sent me to:

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48458

But this one is not related to the alt atribute, this one is about image sizes, so I opened a new one.

alt atribute is very necessary for those people who navigate without images. Without alt atribute many pages loses a lot of functionality and gets unusable if you are not using images. Forums, logins or every button which is a image simply disapears. I illustrated it with this image:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4491/altmu8.jpg

Thank you for your atention.
Comment 1 Drew Fisher 2008-06-27 06:45:32 UTC
I can confirm this behavior in SVN rev 823211.
Comment 2 Jaime Torres 2008-07-20 11:23:51 UTC
Confirmed in 4.1.60 svn trunk 831729
Comment 3 Jaime Torres 2008-08-07 19:25:03 UTC
*** Bug 124545 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 4 Jaime Torres 2008-08-07 19:27:43 UTC
comment 15 in bug 102590 also related to this bug.
Comment 5 Maciej Pilichowski 2008-08-07 20:40:10 UTC
Summary from my report (this one is really a duplicate) -- display "alt" text while loading images.
Comment 6 Gérard Talbot (no longer involved) 2009-07-09 05:36:37 UTC
Google Chrome and Safari 4 have such bug too:

https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5566

http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=773

regards, Gérard
Comment 7 Gérard Talbot (no longer involved) 2009-10-25 02:34:21 UTC
"
the specification for the ALT property calls for ALT to be displayed in place of the image
"

Konqueror FAQ
Why doesn't KHTML show the contents of an image's ALT tag in a tooltip?
http://www.konqueror.org/faq/#WhydoesntKHTMLshowthecontentsofanimagesALTtaginatooltip

Gérard
Comment 8 Maciej Pilichowski 2009-10-25 06:24:22 UTC
I wouldn't mind the tooltip (as an option maybe) but this report is not about it. And in fact all capabilities described in FAQ are not implemented to maximum.
Comment 9 Gérard Talbot (no longer involved) 2010-04-24 19:41:17 UTC
Please someone add "accessibility" keyword to this bug report. Thanks!
Comment 10 Gérard Talbot (no longer involved) 2011-07-12 18:04:34 UTC
Bug 158249, bug 170069, bug 48458 and bug 276839 should merge into 1 single bug
report.

Gérard
Comment 11 Dawit Alemayehu 2011-12-31 17:24:54 UTC
*** Bug 170069 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 12 Janek Bevendorff 2012-06-18 18:45:12 UTC
*** Bug 276839 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 13 Janek Bevendorff 2012-06-18 18:46:49 UTC
*** Bug 48458 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 14 Janek Bevendorff 2012-06-18 18:53:43 UTC
There hasn't been any activity on this issue for some time. Please check if this issue is still valid for Konqueror 4.8.4 or later.
Comment 15 Jesús Guerrero Botella 2012-06-19 05:35:28 UTC
This IS NOT fixed, so it still stands.

To reproduce it, you just have to pick a random web page whose buttons are image-based. I guess that's 99% of the sites, nowadays.

Disable images, and buttons will dissapear, because konqueror doesn't obbey the standard that says that the value of the alt html property should be displayed as a substitute of the image in those browsers that can't display the image for some reason. This means you lose the buttons to save changes, or publish the post, or whatever else, depending on the site.

As a result, the web site is completely unusable in konqueror.
Comment 16 Myriam Schweingruber 2012-06-19 10:35:07 UTC
Thank you for the feedback.
(In reply to comment #15)
> This IS NOT fixed, so it still stands.
> 
> To reproduce it, you just have to pick a random web page whose buttons are
> image-based. I guess that's 99% of the sites, nowadays.
> 
> Disable images, and buttons will dissapear, because konqueror doesn't obbey
> the standard that says that the value of the alt html property should be
> displayed as a substitute of the image in those browsers that can't display
> the image for some reason. This means you lose the buttons to save changes,
> or publish the post, or whatever else, depending on the site.
> 
> As a result, the web site is completely unusable in konqueror.

Could you please give an example of such a website? The ones I use are perfectly fine without images. Tested with Konqueror 4.8.90 on Kubuntu 12.04
Comment 17 Jesús Guerrero Botella 2012-06-19 13:18:59 UTC
Try forums.gentoo.org.

I can provide screenshots if needed, later.

But, to me, the important thing is not which site fails, but the point that konqueror is the only browser that ignores the alt label.
Comment 18 Myriam Schweingruber 2012-06-19 17:24:15 UTC
Thank you for the fast feedback.
Comment 19 Janek Bevendorff 2012-06-19 17:26:32 UTC
(In reply to comment #17)
> But, to me, the important thing is not which site fails, but the point that
> konqueror is the only browser that ignores the alt label.

It's not just that. The alt attribute is there for accessibility reasons, that means it's used to provide a textual alternative for screen readers and of course also for normal users when the image fails to load. This is definitely a bug and still reproducible in 4.8.90.
Thanks for the feedback.
Comment 20 Gérard Talbot (no longer involved) 2012-06-20 20:30:04 UTC
From the beginning, this bug report should have been better described, more precise and better explained.

Konqueror 4.x (including 4.8.4) with KHTML rendering engine will display the alt atttribute text (and all of it) if the authored-specified image placeholder dimensions are sufficient wide and tall to render all of the alt text. 

The reverse is also true. 

Konqueror 4.x (including 4.8.4) with KHTML rendering engine will NOT display entirely the alt atttribute text if the authored-specified image placeholder dimensions are NOT sufficient wide and NOT tall enough to render all the alt text or - often - when image placeholder dimensions are not provided at all.

Konqueror 4.8.4  with KHTML rendering engine fails this 
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/ExpandingAltTextForImages.html
test where the width and height of the missing image are specified as width="100" height="50" and alt="If you can read this entire sentence, then your browser passed this test." precisely because the alt text is way too long, wide, exceeding 100px. Take that same test and give the image width and height attribute wide and tall enough dimensions and the whole alt text will be rendered or reduce the alt text length and it will often be rendered. 

Konqueror 4.8.4 with KHTML rendering engine will (almost) pass this
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/FormattedAlternateText.html
test


Take this test
http://test.csswg.org/suites/css2.1/20110323/html4/first-letter-selector-015.htm
from the CSS 2.1 test suite. Konqueror 4.8.4 fails it because and only because the default image placeholder dimensions in Konqueror is insufficient, too narrow for the given alt text. For this reason, this first-letter-selector-015 test has been flagged as imprecise and incorrect: the pass/test conditions of the test are inaccurate and so Konqueror 4.8.4 with KHTML rendering engine "fails" such *inaccurate* test.

I have quoted precisely all the UAAG 1 spec in bug 170069
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=170069#c1

Techniques for User Agent Accessibility Guidelines 1.0
2.3 Render conditional content (P1)
Example techniques can be read at
http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10-TECHS/guidelines.html#tech-conditional-content
"
4. For an object (e.g., an image) with an author-specified geometry that the user agent does not render, allow the user to configure how the conditional content should be rendered. For example, within the specified geometry, or by ignoring the specified geometry altogether.
"
and this is exactly what Firefox does (with its about:config's browser.display.force_inline_alttext feature) and what Ian Hickson recommends [1]: this is what Konqueror should be doing.

 
[1]  Alternate text for images: why image dimensions should NOT be preserved when an image is not shown with 11 convincing arguments presented by Ian "Hixie" Hickson:
"The reader of the page frankly couldn't care less if the author has made a mistake and the page is not completely available. The reader wants the information. So if an image is not available, the page should adapt. This is what alt text is designed to do."
http://www.hixie.ch/advocacy/alttext

Resolving bugs as duplicates does not necessarly clarify what the bug is really about if no bug report has given clear steps to reproduce, actual results, expected results and a good testcase in the first place.

Gérard
Comment 21 Gérard Talbot (no longer involved) 2012-06-20 21:38:15 UTC
(In reply to comment #17)

> But, to me, the important thing is not which site fails, but the point that
> konqueror is the only browser that ignores the alt label.


That's not true.


Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 fail
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/FormattedAlternateText.html
and they both fail
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/ExpandingAltTextForImages.html

Chrome 19.0.1084.56 and Safari 5.1.7 fail
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/FormattedAlternateText.html
and they both fail
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/ExpandingAltTextForImages.html

Opera 12.0 fails 
http://www.gtalbot.org/BrowserBugsSection/MSIE7Bugs/ExpandingAltTextForImages.html

Gérard
Comment 22 Rolf Eike Beer 2014-07-29 06:13:57 UTC
linked testcases still fail