Version: 1.7 (using KDE 3.3.0, compiled sources) Compiler: gcc version 3.3.4 (Debian) OS: Linux (i686) release 2.4.21 When I have a deleted but new email kmail counts it as 'new' in the folder-counter. This is incorrect since going to the folder hides all deleted email and suddenly makes the unread emails disapear.
This is no bug as the server itself reports the message as new. The only chance to change this is to support the deleted state and this is already in our wishlist. *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 26986 ***
You seem to misunderstand completely; a message which is reported as new and also reported as deleted is something KMail chooses to not display. It does this on display, but forgets to do so on showing unread-messages count. This has _nothing_ to do with manipulating emails states in any way.
This bug is still a duplicate. There is the exact same bug. I don't have the number handy, though. Will check later, unless you beat me to it.
In KMail the unread counts on all folders after a 'check mail' reflect the technically correct count, the actual count of unread email, but this is not what the user expects if some of these emails are deleted as well as unread. The unread counters should only show unread AND non-deleted emails. It has been noted that this situation can be resolved by simply showing the deleted emails, new or not, in the listing of kmail. This solution is not going to solve that incorrect email counts are shown, it only shows WHY the counts are incorrect. Or in other words; no user wants to see deleted emails as 'unread'. Suggesting that this problem goes away if kmail consistenly shows some deleted email as unread is naive; you are mistaking user-expectency with technically correct. to repeat; this is not a duplicate of, or can be solved with anything that implies #26986
On Saturday 02 October 2004 18:02, Thomas Zander wrote: > In KMail the unread counts on all folders after a 'check mail' reflect the > technically correct count, the actual count of unread email, but this is > not what the user expects if some of these emails are deleted as well as > unread. The unread counters should only show unread AND non-deleted emails. This is not how imap works. As several users can work with one folder in parallel you have to be able to see the changes. And these changes also include new mails that have been deleted without reading them first. Suppressing the deleted emails from the unread count would violate this principle. > It has been noted that this situation can be resolved by simply showing the > deleted emails, new or not, in the listing of kmail. This solution is not > going to solve that incorrect email counts are shown, it only shows WHY the > counts are incorrect. They are _not_ incorrect. This is what the server reports as the mails are _unread_. > Or in other words; no user wants to see deleted > emails as 'unread'. Speek for yourself but I will show you a lot of users that work with e.g. public folders and want to see these mails.
On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 11:50:11AM -0000, Carsten Burghardt wrote: > On Saturday 02 October 2004 18:02, Thomas Zander wrote: > > In KMail the unread counts on all folders after a 'check mail' reflect the > > technically correct count, the actual count of unread email, but this is > > not what the user expects if some of these emails are deleted as well as > > unread. The unread counters should only show unread AND non-deleted emails. > > This is not how imap works. You are again mistaking technically correct with user-expectation. > As several users can work with one folder in > parallel you have to be able to see the changes. So, you want to show the amount of emails that a user can NOT read due to a feature request (26986) thats probably not going to get implemented any time soon. Besides; KMail is incapable of marking an email on the remote server deleted and new (not normally anyway). So nice try; won't fly. > > It has been noted that this situation can be resolved by simply showing the > > deleted emails, new or not, in the listing of kmail. This solution is not > > going to solve that incorrect email counts are shown, it only shows WHY the > > counts are incorrect. > > They are _not_ incorrect. This is what the server reports as the mails are > _unread_. They most certainly are incorrect; if they were correct bug 26986 should be a grave bug to equal the amounts you say are correct, it is not, its a feature request. And it has been for over 3 years for a reason. > > Or in other words; no user wants to see deleted > > emails as 'unread'. > > Speek for yourself but I will show you a lot of users that work with e.g. > public folders and want to see these mails. I don't buy it; there are 7 voters for this behavior you want and claim to be correct. So a) KMail does not support the behavior you claim is correct b) there are only 7 voters that actually want that behavior c) as a usability person I'm pretty sure that people will not expect deleted email to appear in the unread mail count. Newbees don't call it "New mail count" without reason you know.. point a) alone means KMail needs to fix this behavior in the manner I described since internal inconsistency is the worst usability violation there is. I'm not shure why you fight this so much; if you only take a step back and look at the facts, or trust a usabiliy person to say that technically correct does not always mean its what the user expects.
On Sunday 03 October 2004 14:38, Thomas Zander wrote: > On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 11:50:11AM -0000, Carsten Burghardt wrote: > > On Saturday 02 October 2004 18:02, Thomas Zander wrote: > > > In KMail the unread counts on all folders after a 'check mail' reflect > > > the technically correct count, the actual count of unread email, but > > > this is not what the user expects if some of these emails are deleted > > > as well as unread. The unread counters should only show unread AND > > > non-deleted emails. > > > > This is not how imap works. > > You are again mistaking technically correct with user-expectation. Perhaps with your expectations. > > As several users can work with one folder in > > parallel you have to be able to see the changes. > > So, you want to show the amount of emails that a user can NOT read due to a > feature request (26986) thats probably not going to get implemented any > time soon. Of course the user can read these mails. The mails appear as striked through but still can be read until you expunge the folder which actually removes these mails completely. > Besides; KMail is incapable of marking an email on the remote server > deleted and new (not normally anyway). So nice try; won't fly. The mail _is_ already marked as such, kmail only has to display it.
On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 01:43:14PM -0000, Carsten Burghardt wrote: > On Sunday 03 October 2004 14:38, Thomas Zander wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 11:50:11AM -0000, Carsten Burghardt wrote: > > > On Saturday 02 October 2004 18:02, Thomas Zander wrote: > > > > In KMail the unread counts on all folders after a 'check mail' reflect > > > > the technically correct count, the actual count of unread email, but > > > > this is not what the user expects if some of these emails are deleted > > > > as well as unread. The unread counters should only show unread AND > > > > non-deleted emails. > > > > > > This is not how imap works. > > > > You are again mistaking technically correct with user-expectation. > > Perhaps with your expectations. Carsten, if you don't want user-feedback, or advice from people who have much more experience with user then you. Just tell me to stop reporting bugs. No problem from me, saves me a whole lot of time. > > > As several users can work with one folder in > > > parallel you have to be able to see the changes. > > > > So, you want to show the amount of emails that a user can NOT read due to a > > feature request (26986) thats probably not going to get implemented any > > time soon. > > Of course the user can read these mails. The mails appear as striked through > but still can be read until you expunge the folder which actually removes > these mails completely. Right. In your personal developer version? Certainly not in the version this report was filed against. If you (again) have information that will change my mind; I would advice you to explain your reasons of fighting me on this so hard. A discussion is to present all the facts and your ideas, and then do the same from the other side and then you discuss on disagreements. You unpleasantly surprised me with new info (your conclusion that this issue can be solved with showing deleted emails) before, and now you are not saying it, but it seems you feel that this is not a bug, its expected behavior. Communication via email (and via bugs as well) requires to be up-front with your info. This is talking much to much of my time.
What about folders that have the option: Ignore new email in this folder, turned on? Those emails are new but not counted. I use this for my trash-folder, because, and I have to agree on this with Thomas, deleted means: not to be counted. Maybe I got this whole bug wrong, as it seems to be more complicated when reading through your discussion. If it is really only about deleted email being reported as unread, there should not be that much angry discussion about it but simply acknowledged that deleting an email is a statement by the user that clearly determins that this email is of no interest to him/her, thus should not be counted as unread. It's like skat, deleted is a trump and wins against any other state.
Changing title of bug to notice the user-name (new mail) instead of the technical name (unread mail).