Version: (using KDE KDE 3.2.0) Installed from: SuSE RPMs OS: Linux Setting up a search-folder for a new/normal user is impossible, as one does not find them, as it was discussed on the suse mailing-list for exapmle. So this my try to suggest dome improvements for the usability part. 1. Even if we get the user to know about what a search-folder is and can do, it is absolutely not obvious that this little, tiny submenu in the setting up a folder dialogue is what one has to do in order to use the functionality. 2. When having set up the folder, again it is not obvious that one has to do a simple search in order to define the criteria. "Search message" does not make it obvious that this is used to define search-folder criteria. So here is what I suggest. First, search-folders are one of the best features kmail has got to offer, so lets promote it and make it easy to access and use. When clicking on the default "magnifying-glass folder" all one gets is some release information of kmail, even if reading it once, nobody is really interested in that, as it does not contain any functionality, so why not replace it with some of that. A dialogue that explains what the thing one clicked on (magnifying-glass folder) can actually do is very useful and makes it almost impossible not to find that feature without adding any new context-menu entries. So beginning with a short introduction one might also want to offer the possibility to set up a search folder in that place, i.e. one click and I get information about and the setup for a feature. One could offer some templates, i.e. new-mail search-folder, junk-mail search-folder, friend's/project's search-folder, you name it. Below that the possibility to setup a search-folder manually and in detail, i.e. what you have right now in the search message dialogue. Further, when I right-click on a created search-folder, there is no possibility edit its search criteria, which there should be because it seems obvious that if I want to change something for a particular folder, I right-click it and find the necessary functionality. In Konqueror you also click a file in order to change its settings. In case the setting-up dialogue would now leave no space for actual "just messages searches" this should be solvable by creating a temporary folder until the end of the session for that purpose. Those are the things I suggested on the mailinglist and that were seen as improvements. I hope they help! Sven
Subject: Re: New: improve setting up search-folder user-friendliness On Wednesday 04 February 2004 07:46, S.Burmeister wrote: ... > Setting up a search-folder for a new/normal user is impossible, as > one does not find them, as it was discussed on the suse > mailing-list for exapmle. I'm open to suggestions on how search folders can be made easier to use. > So this my try to suggest dome improvements for the usability part. > > 1. Even if we get the user to know about what a search-folder is > and can do, it is absolutely not obvious that this little, tiny > submenu in the setting up a folder dialogue is what one has to do > in order to use the functionality. 2. When having set up the > folder, again it is not obvious that one has to do a simple search > in order to define the criteria. "Search message" does not make it > obvious that this is used to define search-folder criteria. > > So here is what I suggest. > > First, search-folders are one of the best features kmail has got to > offer, so lets promote it and make it easy to access and use. Thanks, I'm quite please with them. I'm a bit disappointed that a full text index couldn't be finished, as that would speed up searching a lot. But you can't have everything. > When clicking on the default "magnifying-glass folder" all one gets > is some release information of kmail, even if reading it once, > nobody is really interested in that, as it does not contain any > functionality, so why not replace it with some of that. > > A dialogue that explains what the thing one clicked on > (magnifying-glass folder) can actually do is very useful and makes > it almost impossible not to find that feature without adding any > new context-menu entries. So beginning with a short introduction > one might also want to offer the possibility to set up a search > folder in that place, i.e. one click and I get information about > and the setup for a feature. Having the "magnifying-glass folder" showing a page explaining the benefits of search folders and how to create and update them sounds like a good idea to me. (Anyone object?) > One could offer some templates, i.e. new-mail search-folder, > junk-mail search-folder, friend's/project's search-folder, you name > it. Unfortunately I think this is a bit much to start with. I'd prefer to keep things simple. > Below that the possibility to setup a search-folder manually and in > detail, i.e. what you have right now in the search message > dialogue. > > Further, when I right-click on a created search-folder, there is no > possibility edit its search criteria, which there should be because > it seems obvious that if I want to change something for a > particular folder, I right-click it and find the necessary > functionality. In Konqueror you also click a file in order to > change its settings. You can update the search associated with a search folder by searching the search folder. The "magnifying-glass folder" page could explain that. > In case the setting-up dialogue would now leave no space for actual > "just messages searches" this should be solvable by creating a > temporary folder until the end of the session for that purpose. Not sure what you mean. > Those are the things I suggested on the mailinglist and that were > seen as improvements. I hope they help! Well, if you do the work to create the "magnifying-glass folder" (html) page text and I like it then I'll lobby for it to be included in the next release. Don.
Subject: Re: improve setting up search-folder user-friendliness Don Sanders schrieb: > Having the "magnifying-glass folder" showing a page explaining the > benefits of search folders and how to create and update them sounds > like a good idea to me. (Anyone object?) Hello! Well, me in a way. To have that page is certainly useful, i.e. I agree in that point. However just the page does not improve usability, but just explains how to find ones path through the hidden and not obvious handling. So this page should be a short term goal but further improvement, such as suggested by me, i.e. having settings and information as close to the target as possible. If my suggestion is too much, then maybe a link on the information page would do, that opens the settings. Mozilla got that when clicking on an account you have a number of functionalities listed in the message area of the window. > >>One could offer some templates, i.e. new-mail search-folder, >>junk-mail search-folder, friend's/project's search-folder, you name >>it. > > > Unfortunately I think this is a bit much to start with. I'd prefer to > keep things simple. That's fine with me. I just thought, that as there are already some kind of templates, i.e. filter for subject/Sender... these could easily be used, anyway not that important. > You can update the search associated with a search folder by searching > the search folder. The "magnifying-glass folder" page could explain > that. Or one could improve the handling instead of having to explain the not-obvious. ;) I think that people are used to click on whatever they want to change and then expect some settings option in the context-menu, especially, since a folder is displayed and every other folder is customisable, i.e. settings can be altered. >>In case the setting-up dialogue would now leave no space for actual >>"just messages searches" this should be solvable by creating a >>temporary folder until the end of the session for that purpose. > > > Not sure what you mean. I was not sure whether search results are displayed right in the magnifying-glass folder, but they are not, as a sub-folder "current search" is created. >>Those are the things I suggested on the mailinglist and that were >>seen as improvements. I hope they help! > > > Well, if you do the work to create the "magnifying-glass > folder" (html) page text and I like it then I'll lobby for it to be > included in the next release. Yes I would do that, till when would that be due? Where can I find some information on how to include links that open e.g. the search messages dialogue. Further I have to figure out some things first, as I cannot yet get kmail to display just unread messages when I select <status> equals unread as search criteria, same with new. Adding to that messages do not seem to dissapear from the search-folder, when it should only show unread, I then select an unread, it is marked as unread and I click on the next one. In that case it should "leave" the folder should it not? In fact the message I read does not even get marked as read in the inbox, as long as I do not click on it while bein gin the inbox, so I must have set up some things in the wrong way, that I should figure out before being able to write a help document. Sven
Subject: Re: improve setting up search-folder user-friendliness On Thursday 05 February 2004 23:37, S.Burmeister wrote: > Further I have to figure out some things first, as I cannot > yet get kmail to display just unread messages when I select > > <status> equals unread > > as search criteria, same with new. Adding to that messages do not seem > to dissapear from the search-folder, when it should only show unread, I > then select an unread, it is marked as unread and I click on the next > one. In that case it should "leave" the folder should it not? In fact > the message I read does not even get marked as read in the inbox, as > long as I do not click on it while bein gin the inbox, so I must have > set up some things in the wrong way, that I should figure out before > being able to write a help document. A few points, although it's OT for this bug : - <status> equals foo was only lately changed to behave the same as: <status> contains foo, but it's in 3.2, as far as I can see. Does contains work? - marking a message as read in a search folder should mark the message as read the source folder, and does here - status changes do currently not trigger search updates, that's correct. Since mails change to read automatically it would be confusing for the message to suddenly vanish. There is cases in which it should update, though, and I'll look at that. If you want to follow up on these issues, please do so on the kmail-devel list as to not further pollute this bug report. :) Till
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