Version: (using KDE Devel) Installed from: Compiled sources As Olivier suggested in comments to Bug 71076. This is a *separate* bug, so please keep all comments for this here, and vice versa. Start new bugs instead of making a tree of 150 unrelated comments :P. An Unknown status would be very nice. Because sometimes I don't notice that an account has disconnected, and look at a metacontact thinking a couple different accounts are offline, when really they're unknown and *I'm* offline. A simple question mark overlay on the icons for Unknown status would make this immediately clear. Jason posted some arguments, which I'll respond to: - This would be contrary to every IM client known to man Not true. I can't remember specifically which, but I do remember seeing "Unknown" in some Windows IM client in recent years. Maybe not an official one...but something. - This would mean that the "show only online contacts" would not work, since unknown is always shown And we can't change that!!! Seriously, don't throw out good ideas simply because it means you'd have to change more than one thing (you do this alot). If an Unknown status were added, then of course the button would be made to hide unknown users as well as offline. Besides, since Unknown is not Online, why would a button that hides all things != Online show Unknown? - If you tried to fix the above by changing it to not show unknown *or* online, SMS and WInpopup users will *never* show online I'm assuming you meant s/online/offline/. And how is that any different from now? If you hide offline contacts now, do they show up? I don't know because I don't use either plugin. I know that offline ICQ and Yahoo users don't show up, even though I can send a message to them, but it doesn't matter. The button hides anyone not known to be actively online. This makes no sense to me. - Anyways, this is not what Unknown was intended for. Unknown is for when you *can't* know the other guy's status, not that you *don't* know because you aren't connected. They are one and the same. In either case, you *cannot* find out, for one reason or another. But if this Unknown status already exists and is related to the SMS/WinPopup thing above, and you really think they ought to be separate, then s/Unknown/Not Applicable/ the current status and still add an Unknown status.
>I'm assuming you meant s/online/offline/. And how is that any different from >now? If you hide offline contacts now, do they show up? I don't know because I >don't use either plugin. Apparantly not. SMS and WInpopup contacts are all Unknown status. They always show up regardless of the Online / Offline button, because you cannot know their status. Theres been an Unknown status in Kopete since before version 0.5. But Unknown means "Unknown", it means "I can not know this status", it doesn't mean "I don't know this status because you aren't connected". All SMS and WInpopup contacts are Unknown.Metacontacts without loaded protocols are Unknown. I am *highly* against marking everyone as Unknown when you disconnect. But even so, this bug title is wrong.
*** Bug 71076 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
BTW: There is already an Unknown status. Should a SMS contact been showed? In many case, this is not 100% related to the status. The Online/Offline flag used to show contact, or count the number of online contact in the group is not only related to the status... it has an algoritm which use also account::isConnected Every others client you know show contacts offline when you are offline? MSN Messenger
Subject: Re: Contact status should be marked as Unknown when you disconnect Jason Keirstead (Tuesday 23 December 2003 08:21) > Apparantly not. SMS and WInpopup contacts are all Unknown status. They > always show up regardless of the Online / Offline button, because you > cannot know their status. Then, as suggested, "Not Applicable". > Theres been an Unknown status in Kopete since before version 0.5. But > Unknown means "Unknown", it means "I can not know this status", it doesn't > mean "I don't know this status because you aren't connected". Wrong...Webster's says: Unknown \Un*known"\, a. Not known; not apprehended. -- Un*known"ness, n. [R.] Which would be 100% accurate to the scenario where I'm advocating using it. > I am *highly* against marking everyone as Unknown when you disconnect. But > even so, this bug title is wrong. No...the new title is wrong. I don't want it marked as unknown upon disconnection, but marked as unknown in any case where the status is unknown rather than known to be offline. The new title is worse than the old.
Geez, you guys sure know how to fill a bugzilla entry in the 24 hours that I haven't been reading mail :) Anyway, my take on the matter: Instead of two statuses (Offline and Unknown) we need THREE of them, the third being Disconnected or something like that. The reason is quite simple, both Offline and Unknown already have another, conflicting meaning, because they refer to the _OTHER_ contact. While surely the status is unknown when you are disconnected the status is unknown with e.g. SMS even if you _ARE_ connected, so there's two different 'Unknown' statuses now that cannot be combined. Likewise the Disconnected state can't be combined with Offline either (as it's now) because 1. you don't want to see KNotify events when _you_ disconnect and 2. it's not the contact that's offline (not necessarily at least) but you yourself. Martijn
Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] Inconsistant offline notication across protocols Martijn Klingens (Tuesday 23 December 2003 13:58) > I'd say we need to auto-reconnect for a couple of times (3?) instead and > only do this when that fails. Sure, autoreconnection would be a nice feature and has already been requested numerous times...but I want a knotify setting regardless. Even if my AIM account disconnects and automatically reconnects, I still want to see a passive popup or two telling me about it. I *don't* like sitting in the dark, like I do now. > I also tend to lean towards hardcoding the message box if the reconnect > fails, as it's a more grave issue than just losing connection by then. It wouldn't have to be 100% hardcoded would it? Something along the lines of "Account ID $account_id has been disconnected from the $protocol network.". Then an additional argument could be passed, and if present would be appended to the end of the previous..."<br><br>$errstr". > Last, I think a KNotify event when reconnecting might be a nice add-on, but > independent of the above. Sure.
Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] Contacts should have "Unknown" status when status is unknown as opposed to offline Martijn Klingens (Tuesday 23 December 2003 13:55) > Anyway, my take on the matter: So...the exact same thing I was proposing by renaming the current "Unknown" to "Not Applicable" and adding a new "Unknown"? ;-) I'd find that preferable to your naming scheme though, because it seems syntactically accurate and straightforward, whereas your terms confuse me. :-P
Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] Contacts should have "Unknown" status when status is unknown as opposed to offline On Tuesday 23 December 2003 20:14, Casey Allen Shobe wrote: > So...the exact same thing I was proposing by renaming the current "Unknown" > to "Not Applicable" and adding a new "Unknown"? ;-) Bah, that's what you guys get for mailing so much :) But yes, I overlooked that comment. > I'd find that preferable to your naming scheme though, because it seems > syntactically accurate and straightforward, whereas your terms confuse > me. :-P You're the native speaker, I'm not :) And for the record, I agree that NotAvailable is probably better than Disconnected indeed :) In reply to your other comment: > It wouldn't have to be 100% hardcoded would it? Surely not. I meant hardcoding the use of a message box over KNotify, not hardcoding the actual message :)
CVS commit by lilachaze: Added a note about adding an Unknown online status. CCMAIL: 71113@bugs.kde.org M +4 -0 API-TODO 1.7 --- kdenetwork/kopete/libkopete/API-TODO #1.6:1.7 @@ -26,4 +26,8 @@ MimeSourceFactory. +Add an Unknown status to KopeteOnlineStatus for when the status of a contact is unknown (in +the case that they've not authorised you) or unknowable (in the case that your account is offline, +etc). + Some sort of async message processing API needs to be designed and implemented Richard's proposal: (email questions to the list or to kde@metafoo.co.uk)
There is know the "Account is Offline" status, with a small red plug in the status icon.