Version: (using KDE KDE 3.1.4) Installed from: Mandrake RPMs It would be useful to be able to add an irc channel as a contact, which comes online when the irc connection in online. It stays connected to the channel, logging the chat, even though there may be no chat windows open. When someone talks to you like <Mike> JohnFlux: hello then a notification bubble pops up as usual. Viewing the message should show the window where the person said this. A good few pages at least of history should be shown, although this can be done with the history plugin. (although I think in the case of irc, the history plugin should be on by default somehow..)
This kind of behavior is way beyond the scope of Kopete, which is a messaging client. It's not a logging daemon. What you describe here is more like a BNC. Check out using psyBNC to proxy your IRC connections if you want this functionality, I currently use it on EFNet with XChat and Kopete and it is a good app with lots of features including logging, encryption, translation, etc etc. Too many to list here.
Subject: Re: stay in a chat even when no window is open But kopete already does the logging bit with the history plugin. This wish is so I can stay in a channel but not have the window pop up every time someone says something. Perhaps a compromise would be to have it only give the window focus if someone says your name, rather than on every message? Thanks _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess
Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] stay in a chat even when no window is open > But kopete already does the logging bit with the history plugin. > This wish is so I can stay in a channel but not have the window pop up > every time someone says something. This is the part that is beyond the scope of Kopete. Keeping a conversation open with a contact while the winodow is closed would not only require a magor arch. rework, it would be pretty much useless except for logging in IRC as you decribed. > Perhaps a compromise would be to have it only give the window focus if > someone says your name, rather than on every message? You can already do this. If you turn off "Raise window/ tab on new messages" in the Chat Behaviour config, ( this should not even be default to on if it is ), Kopete will not steal the focus away. You can then add a passive popup to fire on highlighted messages via the Sounds & Events section and you have pretty much the stuff you requested.
What John is asking for here seems very easy...an option on IRC channel contacts to join the channel when you logon to the IRC network, without a visible window (say, "Always on channel"). The only difference would be the lack of an active chat window, and when highlighted messages appeared, they would show in a passive or bubble popup. Logging would be optional and if existant provided by the history plugin (which currently logs messages even if ignored AFAIK). It would enable you to sit idle on a channel, but be available when somebody saw you there and wanted to get your attention, without having to keep an open chatwindow for it...
Its not easy at all. It would mean keeping the KMM active after the windows are destroyed and a host of other things. It would open the door for memory leaks if it wasn't done properly. And it would need major libkopete changes for something only IRC could use and in rare cases at that. It's not going to be done. It is beyond the scope of a messaging client altogether. Also, I don't know of a single IRC client that can do this, unless you run BitchX with screen which doesn't even count really since you are using screen. Whay he wants is the job of a third party program like psyBNC. It is EXACTLY what a BNC is for.
Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] stay in a chat even when no window is open On Friday 10 October 2003 14:54, Casey Allen Shobe wrote: > What John is asking for here seems very easy...an option on > IRC channel contacts to join the channel when you logon to the IRC network, > without a visible window (say, "Always on channel"). The only difference > would be the lack of an active chat window, and when highlighted messages > appeared, they would show in a passive or bubble popup. I doubt it's that easy to technically implement, but most of it is needed in the further future for other reasons too, like a Nickserv plugin that authenticates to nickserv automatically. After KDE 3.2 I think this will be worth pursuing, at least the libkopete part of things.
After having thought about it, I think it's a very useful feature. We can keep it as a wishlist item, it doesn't hurt after all. Jabber could also make use of it since many seem to be using Jabber's multi-user chat like IRC.
*throws his hand sup in disbelief You guys are insane.
To elaborate RE nickserv A nickserv plugin would not need this, nor would it exist, since I am already adding a /identify command, and I am also adding the "on connect run these commands" thing to IRC accounts as I said before, so all you would do is put the identify line there. The ONLY possible use for this is for logging a channel / group chat without being in it. And as I said no messaging client does this, and for good reason, it's not a logical use of a messaging client since you aren't messaging anyone. You can already do this on IRC with a BNC, thats what they are designed to do. Then you dont even need to be connected to log. If you wanted to do this in Jabber you should also write a Jabber BNC type thing. If all he wants to do is have the window open but not visible, then that is a KWin job and is already do-able. He can open the chat, hide the window to the tray, and use passive popups on highlight to know when someone talks to him, and then restore the window. Anyways I said my piece on this issue, I think its a waste of effort we could be spending on a multitidue of other things, like say, oh, a decent file transfer arch that works and uses KIO.
Subject: Re: stay in a chat even when no window is open Would there be any way to have the "Raise window/tab on new messages" to be enabled for some things, but disabled for others? I think the hardest bit would be make the gui sensible. Perhaps a catchall 'Yes/No/Smart' ? Perhaps a "Raise window/tab on new messages in chat rooms of only 2 people" ? And a "Raise when someone says my name"? _________________________________________________________________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband
No, it's not just for logging channels. Right now, I have configured Kopete in such a way that each message window will pop up on top when a new message arrives. For IRC, I currently have a single desktop with KVIrc, and I look everytime I want to. The "looking everytime I want to" feel is not reproducable with Kopete, unless you disable the "bring window to front" behavior for all other protocols as well (which would suck). As such, I think that keeping the channel "muted" in the contact list without leaving it and participating whenever I wanted to would be a terrific feature.
Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] stay in a chat even when no window is open On Friday 10 October 2003 17:16, Jason Keirstead wrote: > A nickserv plugin would not need this, nor would it exist, since I am > already adding a /identify command, and I am also adding the "on connect > run these commands" thing to IRC accounts as I said before, so all you > would do is put the identify line there Wrong. I need to re-auth to nickserv after changing nicks to spaze|whatever if this is not a registered alias to my main nick. Also, Kopete still needs to suppress the messages from nickserv because they would still popup otherwise. So, yes, there is a need for this.
Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] stay in a chat even when no window is open On October 10, 2003 12:41 pm, John Tapsell wrote: > Would there be any way to have the "Raise window/tab on new messages" to be > enabled for some things, but disabled for others? > I think the hardest bit would be make the gui sensible. > Perhaps a catchall 'Yes/No/Smart' ? > > Perhaps a "Raise window/tab on new messages in chat rooms of only 2 people" > ? > And a "Raise when someone says my name"? I don't know about the first one, but a "Raise only on Highlight" seems sensible. This could be added to the highlight plugin perhaps. if it is felt that it isn't doesnt belong as core kopete feature, but personally I think it would be OK in the core.
Subject: Re: stay in a chat even when no window is open If you have "Raise when someone says my name" then you almost certaintly want "raise when there is a message in a room of only 2 people", since the message is almost certaintly for you when you are only talking to one person! >From: Jason Keirstead <jason@keirstead.org> >Reply-To: 65803@bugs.kde.org >To: johnflux@hotmail.com >Subject: [Bug 65803] stay in a chat even when no window is open >Date: 10 Oct 2003 15:47:18 -0000 > >------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- >You reported the bug, or are watching the reporter. > >http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65803 > > > > >------- Additional Comments From jason@keirstead.org 2003-10-10 17:47 >------- >Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] stay in a chat even when no window is open > >On October 10, 2003 12:41 pm, John Tapsell wrote: > > > Would there be any way to have the "Raise window/tab on new messages" to >be > > enabled for some things, but disabled for others? > > I think the hardest bit would be make the gui sensible. > > Perhaps a catchall 'Yes/No/Smart' ? > > > > Perhaps a "Raise window/tab on new messages in chat rooms of only 2 >people" > > ? > > And a "Raise when someone says my name"? > >I don't know about the first one, but a "Raise only on Highlight" seems >sensible. This could be added to the highlight plugin perhaps. if it is >felt >that it isn't doesnt belong as core kopete feature, but personally I think >it >would be OK in the core. _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile
Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] stay in a chat even when no window is open > ------- Additional Comments From johnflux@hotmail.com 2003-10-10 17:54 > ------- Subject: Re: stay in a chat even when no window is open > > If you have "Raise when someone says my name" then you almost certaintly > want "raise when there is a message in a room of only 2 people", since the > message is almost certaintly for you when you are only talking to one > person! > ------- Additional Comments From till@tantalo.net 2003-10-10 17:46 ------- > No, it's not just for logging channels. Right now, I have configured Kopete > in such a way that each message window will pop up on top when a new > message arrives. For IRC, I currently have a single desktop with KVIrc, and > I look everytime I want to. The "looking everytime I want to" feel is not > reproducable with Kopete, unless you disable the "bring window to front" > behavior for all other protocols as well (which would suck). > > As such, I think that keeping the channel "muted" in the contact list > without leaving it and participating whenever I wanted to would be a > terrific feature. _______________________________________________ What you are both suggesting is basically having the Raise Window option be per metacontact instead of a global option. Which I am fine with post-3.2, if we can find a good place ot put this in the config.
Subject: Re: stay in a chat even when no window is open I would be totally happy with that. The option in the global settings could be the default/global settings. Then the per-metacontact setting is either "raise/don't raise/use global setting". Would it be possible to have this, and a 'raise when someone says my nick'? >What you are both suggesting is basically having the Raise Window option be >per metacontact instead of a global option. Which I am fine with post-3.2, >if >we can find a good place ot put this in the config. _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess
Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel] stay in a chat even when no window is open On October 10, 2003 1:14 pm, John Tapsell wrote: > Would it be possible to have this, and a 'raise when someone says my nick'? > I don't know, I suppose it could be done, but we're getting into option overload here. Something like that should be put in the highlight plugin I think, ask Gof about it.
Re-opening as a "Raise on new Winow / Tab per MetaContact" feature request
Subject: Re: stay in a chat even when no window is open >I don't know, I suppose it could be done, but we're getting into option >overload here. I'm worried about this as well. Perhaps just a "Raise window/tab on message: yes/no/smart", and then have a good set of heuristics on whether to raise the window or not? _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband
ANYWAYS, this is a request to stay in channel/groupchats without having a chatwindow present, and is outside of the scope of the IRC or Jabber plugins.
*** Bug 67880 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 85145 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 98761 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
libkopete has already an API for that (setCanBeDeleted()) The bug belong to IRC.
Ok - if it is IRC only then I am going to close it again - because as I said in comment #2 - I think the idea is foolish, other IRC clients don't do it, and it is not the job of Kopete to act as a daemon - use a BNC if you want this kind of functionality, or use KWin to hide / show the chat window, or any number of other tools to dock it into the kicker and whatnot.
Well, I've realized now that I duplicated the thread - sorry for that. About the topic here - I believe that it might be easiest to explain what the requestors mean here if you guys could look into the way that Windoze's Miranda behaves with IRC plugin. The chatwindow is closed, but the program behaves just like it was open (it's not hidden in any tray or sth - it's just closed), and when user double-clicks the channel name on contact list then the channel window opens. Just once again to sress it: I don't mean to log channel's activity while I'm off it - I just mean to stay on channels (only those from contact list!) when the chatwindow is closed. No BNC sessions whatsoever... does that look sensible now?
No, it doesn't. I don't care if Miranda does it, it is not usual behavior. mIRC doesn't, XChat doesn't, Konversation, KSirc, Gaim doesn't... It is not the behavior people are going to expect and I am not going to implement it. And that is just reason #1. Reason #2, the reason I won't even have it as an option - is that this is the job of a third party tool, either a BNC or KWin or another window management tool. There even tools that can do this in KDE already. And this is *exactly* what a BNC is for, so that you can exit a client and have your session remain open. It doesn't have anything at all to do with logging, although you could use it for that.
Ok, I'll accept it as a final statement. Thanks a lot for patience anyway... ;-)