Bug 482149 - F10 as menu shortcut steals it from applications
Summary: F10 as menu shortcut steals it from applications
Status: CONFIRMED
Alias: None
Product: konsole
Classification: Applications
Component: keyboard (show other bugs)
Version: 24.02.0
Platform: openSUSE Linux
: NOR normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Konsole Developer
URL:
Keywords:
: 477330 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2024-03-01 13:12 UTC by András Manţia
Modified: 2024-06-07 18:02 UTC (History)
8 users (show)

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Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In:


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Description András Manţia 2024-03-01 13:12:32 UTC
SUMMARY
konsole in 24.0.2 has a default shortcut for F10 to open the menu, which conflicts with applications run in the terminal.

STEPS TO REPRODUCE
1.  Run konsole
2.  Run mc (or mcedit) in the konsole
3.  Press F10 to quit the app 

OBSERVED RESULT
F10 will focus the Konsole's menu instead of quitting the  app run in the terminal.

EXPECTED RESULT
Konsole should use as little as possible shortcuts, especially common ones. Otherwise terminal apps will not behave as expected.
See also the very old issue https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=162209
Comment 1 Nate Graham 2024-03-01 21:10:06 UTC
Can confirm. But I'm not sure how much we can do about this, though. F10 is pretty standard for opening the menu. Maybe you should just un-bind it for yourself if you use apps that also want to use that shortcut?
Comment 2 Felix Ernst 2024-03-02 11:35:04 UTC
I wonder if Konsole could detect if a terminal application reacts to F10 or not and only open the menu when it doesn't. I don't know enough about Konsole to know if that is possible.

On the flip side this would mean that any user that is accustomed to F10 to open menu might be surprised that this doesn't work if a certain terminal application is running. However, I think that would be less important than making sure the terminal application works as expected.
Comment 3 András Manţia 2024-03-02 20:21:26 UTC
In my opinion Konsole is special and should be conservative in what shortcuts it steals from the applications running in the terminal.
Comment 4 Felix Ernst 2024-03-03 11:10:32 UTC
I am not sure "being conservative" works here. When a completely blind person sits in front of Konsole and tries to go to the menu F10 is their only option AFAIK. Take that away and they can't even open the help menu AFAIK.

That's why I suggested that Konsole should only give up control of the F10 key when the current terminal application uses it. This way the general accessibility of Konsole doesn't have to suffer just because some terminal applications also want to use F10.
Comment 5 András Manţia 2024-03-05 11:43:04 UTC
This bug is even more annoying than I thought: the shortcut keeps resetting itself to F10 from time to time (I don't know yet when it happens) despite changing it to "None". Configure Keyboard Shortucts Dialog also shown the Open Menu  entry twice.
Comment 6 Ivan 2024-03-06 02:40:15 UTC
(In reply to Felix Ernst from comment #4)
> I am not sure "being conservative" works here. When a completely blind
> person sits in front of Konsole and tries to go to the menu F10 is their
> only option AFAIK. Take that away and they can't even open the help menu
> AFAIK.
> 
> That's why I suggested that Konsole should only give up control of the F10
> key when the current terminal application uses it. This way the general
> accessibility of Konsole doesn't have to suffer just because some terminal
> applications also want to use F10.

I disagree. F10 is often used in terminal applications. People are used to Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V and other common shortcuts, but that's not how it works in Konsole. The same should be applied to F10 and F11. 

I'm pretty much blind and when I'm using terminal apps like I'm used to instead of getting F10 action from my application I'm getting some useless menu. 

In my opinion this is serious bug
Comment 7 Felix Ernst 2024-03-06 09:04:06 UTC
(In reply to András Manţia from comment #5)
> This bug is even more annoying than I thought: the shortcut keeps resetting
> itself

That would be annoying but it would be considered unrelated to this bug.

(In reply to Ivan from comment #6)
> (In reply to Felix Ernst from comment #4)
> > I am not sure "being conservative" works here. When a completely blind
> > person sits in front of Konsole and tries to go to the menu F10 is their
> > only option AFAIK. Take that away and they can't even open the help menu
> > AFAIK.
> > 
> > That's why I suggested that Konsole should only give up control of the F10
> > key when the current terminal application uses it. This way the general
> > accessibility of Konsole doesn't have to suffer just because some terminal
> > applications also want to use F10.
> 
> I disagree. F10 is often used in terminal applications. People are used to
> Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V and other common shortcuts, but that's not how it works in
> Konsole. The same should be applied to F10 and F11. 
> 
> I'm pretty much blind and when I'm using terminal apps like I'm used to
> instead of getting F10 action from my application I'm getting some useless
> menu. 
> 
> In my opinion this is serious bug

Of course any change we ever make (even if it is during a major transition from Qt 5 to Qt 6 like this) will go against previously expected behaviour. I don't really see though in what way what you are saying disagrees with me. I do agree with your point that it is unwanted when a terminal program's F10 shortcut doesn't work because it was stolen by Konsole. But this doesn't change the argument I made which was: "When a completely blind person sits in front of Konsole and tries to go to the menu F10 is their only option AFAIK. Take that away and they can't even open the help menu AFAIK."
Comment 8 Ivan 2024-03-06 23:14:24 UTC
> Of course any change we ever make (even if it is during a major transition
> from Qt 5 to Qt 6 like this) will go against previously expected behaviour.
> I don't really see though in what way what you are saying disagrees with me.
> I do agree with your point that it is unwanted when a terminal program's F10
> shortcut doesn't work because it was stolen by Konsole. But this doesn't
> change the argument I made which was: "When a completely blind person sits
> in front of Konsole and tries to go to the menu F10 is their only option
> AFAIK. Take that away and they can't even open the help menu AFAIK."

I disagree that conservative approach is not a way to go. Terminal is very special application and it should be excluded from a "normal" behaviour. IMHO F10 to open a menu is a stupid idea in the first place in the same way as F11 for full screen etc. It may work well in a browser, but not in all applications. And when it comes to terminal - it's not just an app, it's a container for running apps. I don't think that terminal should be aware what keys are used in a terminal app and to decide when to open the menu or to pass. I have lots of scripts I created that utilise all F keys. And I always loved Konsole. Suddenly I'm in a big trouble. Not to mention popular apps like mc, htop etc. 

IMHO getting rid of this "feature" is a way to go, or at least adding something like shift+F10, like they did for copy-paste (ctrl+shift+c). I wouldn't be surprised if someone wants to use ctrl+c in terminal for copy :)
Comment 9 Nate Graham 2024-03-06 23:25:46 UTC
Shift+F10 in Konsole would make sense to me, and match how other common shortcuts are handled in terminal apps to avoid conflicting with CLI software.
Comment 10 Felix Ernst 2024-03-07 10:34:40 UTC
Yes, Shift+F10 could work. This way there would still be some keyboard-only way to go to the menu. It's also a common enough change from the typical shortcuts that a user might be able to guess it.
Comment 11 Felix Ernst 2024-03-08 14:47:30 UTC
I'll move this bug report from frameworks to Konsole because the keyboard shortcut should be changed for Konsole and not in frameworks.
Comment 12 duha.bugs 2024-04-08 20:01:23 UTC
*** Bug 477330 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 13 Evert Vorster 2024-05-22 14:50:27 UTC
My opinion here is that a lot of the terminal applications predate the Konsole by decades, and the key bindings of these programs should be respected, and not interfered with.
Mindnight Commander is a fine example. 

At the very least, some mechanism should be provided to disable Qt's shortcut keys on Konsole, or provide a way of changing the default console program in KDE to something that does not highjack the function keys from the program running in the console.