SUMMARY I was testing the new Desktop Bar merged with Desktop Grid that I saw in Nate's blog in a kde neon unstable virtual machine and I noticed that if you increase the number of rows in the virtual desktops setting. The desktop bar completely disappears in the overview effect. STEPS TO REPRODUCE 1. Run plasma 6 2. Have at least two virtual desktops. 3. Trigger the overview. 4. Observe that the desktop bar is there. 5. Open the virtual desktop settings in the system settings app. 6. Increase rows from the default value of 1 to 2 or more. 7. Trigger the overview effect once more. OBSERVED RESULT Desktop Bar is gone. EXPECTED RESULT Desktop Bar should still be there. SOFTWARE/OS VERSIONS Linux/KDE Plasma: kde neon unstable KDE Plasma Version: 5.27.80 KDE Frameworks Version: 5.240.0 Qt Version: 6.6.0
Can reproduce on neon unstable.
I believe this is intentional. The desktop bar is only shown when the desktop layout is 1-dimensional
(In reply to Nicolas Fella from comment #2) > I believe this is intentional. The desktop bar is only shown when the > desktop layout is 1-dimensional If that is the move going forward then alright, but the reason I filled the bug is because this same setup already works in 5.27. I currently have 9 virtual desktops in 3 rows. The desktop bar is shown currently, but it will not be shown in plasma 6.
I can confirm this is intentional; the desktop bar will only be shown: - If you have one desktop row - If you have multiple desktop rows, and a number of desktop that's equal or less to the desktop rows (a.k.a. a single column of desktops)
(In reply to Niccolò Venerandi from comment #4) > I can confirm this is intentional; the desktop bar will only be shown: > - If you have one desktop row > - If you have multiple desktop rows, and a number of desktop that's equal or > less to the desktop rows (a.k.a. a single column of desktops) Ok, but I believe this should be mentioned somewhere, so that people know to change there setup when it comes time to upgrade. As I mention this currently works, but will stop working when it comes time to upgrade to plasma 6. Another thing I noticed is that if you create a number of virtual desktops equal to the number of rows. The desktop bar moves from the top to the left side which is something else that does not currently happen in 5.27. Is this also intentional or should there be a different issue for this?
(In reply to Niccolò Venerandi from comment #4) > I can confirm this is intentional; the desktop bar will only be shown: > - If you have one desktop row > - If you have multiple desktop rows, and a number of desktop that's equal or > less to the desktop rows (a.k.a. a single column of desktops) If moving the desktop bar to the left side of the screen is intentional also, I found that you can no longer click and grab to scroll the desktop bar. This means if you have a number of virtual desktops bigger than your screen size. Then you can not access those from the overview.
I was about to report this issue as well... If this is intentional, I'm not sure it's a very wise choice. This will basically make it a pain for users who like to have layouts with 2 or more rows, which are very handy. It kills a lot of the functionalities of the Overview, since you can no longer move applications to other desktops. Using multiple-row layouts (f.i. 2x2, 3x3, etc) is very useful, because it gives much more flexibility for switching layouts with a single move (up, down, left, right). When I was trying out Plasma 6, I set my virtual desktops in a 2x2 layout and when I toggled the overview to move applications to other desktops, it wasn't possible to do so. It simply killed the Overview for me. FTR this works nicely on Plasma 5.27, so I don't see the point of removing something that is useful and works fine in Plasma 5.
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #7) > I was about to report this issue as well... > > If this is intentional, I'm not sure it's a very wise choice. This will > basically make it a pain for users who like to have layouts with 2 or more > rows, which are very handy. It kills a lot of the functionalities of the > Overview, since you can no longer move applications to other desktops. > > Using multiple-row layouts (f.i. 2x2, 3x3, etc) is very useful, because it > gives much more flexibility for switching layouts with a single move (up, > down, left, right). > > When I was trying out Plasma 6, I set my virtual desktops in a 2x2 layout > and when I toggled the overview to move applications to other desktops, it > wasn't possible to do so. It simply killed the Overview for me. > > FTR this works nicely on Plasma 5.27, so I don't see the point of removing > something that is useful and works fine in Plasma 5. You can press the Overview shortcut again to switch to the grid mode and easily move applications between desktops
*** Bug 482023 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Created attachment 166218 [details] Screenshot: Overview with 2x2 layout A big big down vote for considering this as intentional, which I find very much disappointing and takes some of the excitement for me for Plasma 6 as a ever-since 2x2 layout user. As Andy requested some screenshots in [1] I'd like to take the opportunity to explain why the current situation is bad: 1) 2x2 layout Good: The grid uses fully the available space, showing the VDs sufficiently large Bad: The overview is now just another present windows effect, there's no real overview since the previews are missing 2) 1x4 layout Good: The overview effect works as expected Bad: The grid shows all VDs in a linear fashion and thus all previews are very small and absolutely most of the screen is left blank Thus you got to choose: 2x2 and use only the grid or 1x4 and use only the overview. This is bad. I'd like to use the overview just as with a 1x4 linear layout. [1] https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/5330
Created attachment 166219 [details] Screenshot: Grid with 1x4 layout
Sorry for the over-dramatization two posts above :) but my point still stands. I'd like to re-open this issue to generate more the impression that discussions here is actually alive and valid. https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/5330#note_883093 > we do this, we'll be re-introducing the multiple bugs that were fixed by no longer linearizing non-linear layouts. As a compromise, in case of non-linear layouts, I would be fine if the "add new VD +" button and the "trash cans" are not displayed in the overview effect. That way it'd be become more static and many of the "multiple bugs" should be dodged, yet still non-linear layout user can fully enjoy an overview effect with a VD preview bar.
Created attachment 166253 [details] Mockup: Overview with row indicator To further decrease any confusion about a different layout some users may have due the linearization I'd suggest to add a row indicator to the VD preview bar. Please see the mockup. I believe this makes it pretty obvious and clear. :)
(In reply to Niccolò Venerandi from comment #8) > You can press the Overview shortcut again to switch to the grid mode and > easily move applications between desktops Unfortunately this is not a nice experience. The current implementation in 5.27 is so much better. (In reply to postix from comment #13) > To further decrease any confusion about a different layout some users may > have due the linearization I'd suggest to add a row indicator to the VD > preview bar. Please see the mockup. I believe this makes it pretty obvious > and clear. :) TBH I think the indicators are not needed... they clutter the interface. It would be better to simply revert to what we had in 5.27. If a user sets a 2x2 = 4 workspaces, they won't find it weird to see a row with 4 workspaces when they open the overview. Now, if the user sees nothing at the top bar when the Overview is started, then this will be weird.
Yeah, we're reconsidering this and discussing options a at the moment.
*** Bug 482286 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 482599 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 482564 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I completely agree with Rafael Lima, the current implementation is not providing a good experience. Pressing the Overview shortcut again is also not convenient.. for example I fire the 'Overview' with a Screen Edge action, not with a shortcut, hence I do not even touch the keyboard, it is a mouse action. Why are you trying to copy the bad implementation in Windows 10/11? The Plasma 5.27 version was excellent
Another argument in favor of always showing the VD bar in the overview is, for me anyways, that the desktop bar lets you quickly and conveniently add, remove and, at least on P5, rename (though unfortunately not rearrange) desktops on the fly, which the grid doesn't. (I suppose that functionality could be added to the grid, but I think it makes more sense in the bar). (Also, adding or removing VDs on the fly when they are arranged in a grid may be confusing if doing so changes their layout, I don't have a good solution for that off hand) Besides that I find it rather inconsistent to show the bar only under certain circumstances without even letting the user know about it. I like having two rows because it makes navigating the desktops with touchpad gestures easier, but also want the desktop bar in the overview for various reasons including those mentioned above. (In reply to postix from comment #13) > Created attachment 166253 [details] > Mockup: Overview with row indicator > > To further decrease any confusion about a different layout some users may > have due the linearization I'd suggest to add a row indicator to the VD > preview bar. Please see the mockup. I believe this makes it pretty obvious > and clear. :) I like that proposal. I personally don't think it is necessary but if there is any concern about confusing the users about the layout, this should fix that (besides, as I said I think the status quo on Plasma 6 is more confusing)
(In reply to Gian S. from comment #19) > Why are you trying to copy the bad implementation in Windows 10/11? May I ask you what's the source of this statement? Because I'm the one who made the feature and I had no clue W10/11 even allowed virtual desktop grids, and I certainly didn't know that W10/11 hides the virtual desktop bar if you have multiple row of desktops. One thing that I was thinking could help out is: what if, when you start dragging a window, the effect automatically switches to the desktop grid so that it's easier to drop in to another desktop? (and, why would you be drag-and-dropping a window on the Overview anyway, without the desktop bar?)
> what if, when you start dragging a window, > the effect automatically switches to the desktop grid so > that it's easier to drop in to another desktop? and what is supposed to happen, after dropping it? Will the grid remain open? will the overview be shown again? with the same VD focused or the one where the window was dropped? I think this would all make the UI more complicated. I still believe that simply displaying the desktop bar is the way to go.
*** Bug 482924 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
My own bug was marked as a duplicate of this so I read through the comments. I think there should be changes to the Overview: * if more than one row, show at a minimum the row that the current VD belongs, with a scroll to change the displayed row * A configuration option in the Overview settings to collapse all rows into a single row for the purposes of displaying in Overview
> what if, when you start dragging a window, the effect automatically switches to the desktop grid so that it's easier to drop in to another desktop? (and, why would you be drag-and-dropping a window on the Overview anyway, without the desktop bar?) While that would improve the usefulness of the overview with a grid of desktops, it would still be missing the ability of switching virtual desktops with just the mouse, especially since for hot corners and edges triggering the effect twice to get to the grid doesn't work, and assigning the hot corner to the grid rather than the overview (only possible in 6.1) means that the KRunner powered search isn't accessible. While there are of course other ways of using just the mouse to switch desktops (pager widget, scrolling on the desktop background if that's enabled, assigning the grid to a different corner/edge), what I loved about the Plasma 5 overview is that it was a one stop shop for everything: app launching, app switching, desktop switching, moving apps between desktops, and everything else KRunner can do, instead of having to go to the other separate places to do these things (Kickoff, Alt+Tab app switcher, task manager widget, pager widget, grid effect). Also, the reason I'm using a grid of desktops (2 rows, 3 columns in my case) instead of having them all in one row/column is that with wraparound enabled it only takes me 2 touchpad gestures (or switch to left/right/up/down desktop shortcut) at most to get from one desktop to any other one of the 6, and 3 of the desktops are always accessible with just one gesture/shortcut. If the 2D gestures support comes in then that would make all the desktops accessible with just one gesture with my grid setup. > and what is supposed to happen, after dropping it? Will the grid remain open? will the overview be shown again? with the same VD focused or the one where the window was dropped? Currently if the desktop bar is visible dragging and dropping a window into another virtual desktop will not change the current VD (say if you're in VD1 and you drop a window to VD3 then the overview would stay at VD1), so to maintain that sort of behavior after dropping a window the overview should be shown again at the same VD the user started at. That would have a disadvantage of a lot of stuff moving around on screen all the time if someone has say 4 windows in one VD and wants to move all of them into other VDs though.
(In reply to Niccolò Venerandi from comment #21) > (In reply to Gian S. from comment #19) > > Why are you trying to copy the bad implementation in Windows 10/11? > > May I ask you what's the source of this statement? Because I'm the one who > made the feature and I had no clue W10/11 even allowed virtual desktop > grids, and I certainly didn't know that W10/11 hides the virtual desktop bar > if you have multiple row of desktops. > > One thing that I was thinking could help out is: what if, when you start > dragging a window, the effect automatically switches to the desktop grid so > that it's easier to drop in to another desktop? (and, why would you be > drag-and-dropping a window on the Overview anyway, without the desktop bar?) The current implementation looks to me very very similar to Windows Task View implementation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Task_View#/media/File:Virtual_Desktops_in_Windows_11.png This is what prompted my comment. In my opinion, the previous implementation in Plasma 5 was much more efficient, clearer, simpler to use and so on. To move from a virtual desktop to another you just needed to click on that specific virtual desktop. Even more convenient, if you clicked on the 'mini' version of a window inside virtual desktop you the animation would immediately take you to that desktop and select (bring to the front) the selected window/app. Now you need to click on the desired virtual desktop and that brings up that selected desktop but still in 'Overview' mode. To actually be redirected to that desktop and start working you need another click. Why? this is just an unnecessary extra step. Then again, maybe you, or others have different opinions, but this is mine.
(In reply to Rafael Lima from comment #14) > (In reply to Niccolò Venerandi from comment #8) > > You can press the Overview shortcut again to switch to the grid mode and > > easily move applications between desktops > > Unfortunately this is not a nice experience. The current implementation in > 5.27 is so much better. > > (In reply to postix from comment #13) > > To further decrease any confusion about a different layout some users may > > have due the linearization I'd suggest to add a row indicator to the VD > > preview bar. Please see the mockup. I believe this makes it pretty obvious > > and clear. :) > > TBH I think the indicators are not needed... they clutter the interface. It > would be better to simply revert to what we had in 5.27. > > If a user sets a 2x2 = 4 workspaces, they won't find it weird to see a row > with 4 workspaces when they open the overview. Now, if the user sees nothing > at the top bar when the Overview is started, then this will be weird. When pressing 'Meta+W' to get overview, pressing it again simply enters 'W' in the search. I'm having a lot of trouble understanding this, my rectangular screen zooms 4 desktops in a lovely grid with good resolution on a FHD monitor - why can't I just see 4 in a row in Overview?
> When pressing 'Meta+W' to get overview, pressing it again simply enters 'W' in the search. You'll probably want to file a different bug report for that, it's certainly not intentional. Also, there are two different shortcuts that can get you to the overview, one is "Toggle Overview" and the other is "Cycle through Overview and Grid View", the first one defaults to Meta+W and the other defaults to Meta+Tab. Only the second one will behave as Niccolò described (press once to open overview, press again to switch to grid view).
I'm not having the Meta + W issue. It works correctly on my end. Using Arch.
To get back to topic: another idea which came to my mind is to add a kind of "mini map" in the form of the "pager applet" to the desktop bar, which highlights the currently selected desktop. Of course, this "mini map" would only be displayed in case of a non-linear grid. That way the user should not loose their "overview". :)
The spatial layout doesn't have to be represented in the overview effect. What's important is that the user has all features available that the overview effect is supposed to provide, e.g. moving windows to different desktops, etc. Making certain important features available only under limited circumstances unknown to the user doesn't make sense. I would suggest forgetting about trying to represent the spatial layout and keeping the desktop bar as it was. This is much less confusing than what is currently implemented. Even under a 2x2 layout, e.g., one knows which desktop is the 1st, the 2nd, etc., so the linear representation is not confusing.
*** Bug 477942 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 483959 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 485481 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
As n attempt to clarify here. On Plasma 5 main desktop, the Overview displayed the Virtual Desktops in the Bar, regardless of what arrangement the Desktops are in. For example on my Plasma 5 Desktop I have my desktops arranged in a 3 by 3 Grid for the GridView. When I switch to the OverView all 9 Virtual Desktops are displayed in the Bar. This is not at all confusing. This does not happen on my Plasma 6 test Desktop. So something changed. With regard to dragging windows between Virtual Desktops. Current on my Plasma5 Desktop, When in Overview Mode, I can drag a Window from the Currently selected Virtual Desktop to any other Virtual Desktop. This is not a problem, and I see no need to switch to Gridview to do this. I also see no need to change this behaviour for Plasma 6. I hope I haven't further muddied the water.
I think there's 2 things that irk me about this bug: 1. I was given NO FEEDBACK as to what might be happening when my workspace grid didn't show up. I didn't know if it was intentional behaviour or a packaging bug or something else. Having a little "yo btw" notice appear in the settings window when you create a workspace grid would probably already reduce the number of duplicate bug reports for this issue ;) 2. As far as I can tell (at least on my system) there's no "workspace overview" (the <M-g> one) screen edge corner. Previously it was easy for me to move windows across workspace grid with just my mouse, now that's not possible anymore without also using my keyboard :( As for a design suggestion, I posted this in 485481 because idk why I didn't find this issue first: --- Tricky! The old behaviour showed the grid of workspaces, but it was always a bit cramped, so I can understand wanting to change this. An alternative would be to still show the current row and column (both!) at the top and left side of the screen, with some "hinted" workspaces above/below and left/right. This would allow dragging windows there to a) move the window and b) (optionally?) switch to that workspace. At which point the hints would change (to show some above/ to the left of the existing row/column). It means you can drag windows down your current row or your current column, but you can't drag them diagonally. Probably needs a bunch of design work and tweaking to figure out how to make it look good, but maybe this is an alternative to be able to support large workspace grids like nobody currently does.
(In reply to Katharina Fey from comment #36) > As far as I can tell (at least on my system) there's no "workspace overview" (the <M-g> one) screen edge corner. Previously it was easy for me to move windows across workspace grid with just my mouse, now that's not possible anymore without also using my keyboard That's bug 478137, which will be fixed when Plasma 6.1 comes out.