> In no case packages should be ordered by the progress of their downloading/installation.
But why? The ones currently being downloaded or installed are the ones that are interesting to look at because they're reporting progress. All the rest aren't doing anything and so yo don't need to look at them?

(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #1)
> > In no case packages should be ordered by the progress of their downloading/installation.
> But why? The ones currently being downloaded or installed are the ones that
> are interesting to look at because they're reporting progress. All the rest
> aren't doing anything and so yo don't need to look at them?

I want to be able to see which packages are being downloaded and at what progress. I don't really care whether they are at the top of the list or not - as long as I can reasonably quickly find the package I'm interested in. Alphabetic order gives me that.

What currently happens is e.g. if you have 5 packages that are being downloaded at roughly the same rate, percent-wise, they are constantly shuffling in the list - so fast that I actually can't tell which package is which. This kind of output is not informative at all. This behavior is inherent to the ordering by the progress percentage, which is why I'm asking to stop using that metric for ordering the packages.

But what Discover already does gives you exactly what you want: it sorts packages with progress to the top so you can see them. If the list was sorted alphabetically, the packages with progress would be located at random places in the list.

No, you're missing the point. As I said, that constant shuffling of packages does not allow me to see anything - the list is unreadable. What I'm asking first and foremost is to keep the list stable. As long as it is stable, then we can talk about the order of packages. On that part - alphabetic order is fine for me.

Take Google Play updater for example. You have a list of apps that can be updated (BTW, not in any particular order, if I'm not mistaken; alphabetic order would be better still). Multiple apps are being downloaded in parallel, at various progress percentages. Those apps are not being reordered in the list. Only the one app that is being installed is moved to the top of the list. This behavior is much better than Discover, which shows a list that randomly shuffles packages around as they are downloaded.

 A fixed order works fine when the list if items is smaller than the view such that it's not scrollable, because in this case you can see everything at once.

But once that stops being true, it's common for the packages/apps/whatevers that are in progress to be out of the view, such that you're looking at a view with nothing happening in it. We had this before and it was pretty sucky. People complained that they couldn't tell that anything was happening and they thought Discover was broken.

I can understand that you don't like the dynamic order, but returning to a fixed order would simply swap out your unhappiness for other people's unhappiness.

Maybe that means we need to make the order configurable, and let people switch between "Alphabetical" and "Completion percentage"

Maybe you could show a total progress bar somewhere in the UI that is always visible. This would be the indication that work is being done.

We do already: in the sidebar. It wasn't enough. People missed it. And it's not visible at all in the mobile/narrow view while you're on the Updates page.

IMHO, mobile and desktop should be completely different UI. Very often what is good and usable in one is not in the other.

If people don't notice the progress bar then maybe it is poorly placed or not visible enough. Honestly, I pay no attention to the sidebar because it doesn't offer anything important for the purpose of installing updates. That is, I only open the applet when there are updates, and my attention is focused on the list of packages and the update button. Same when the packages are being installed - I'm looking at the progress, i.e. the list of packages. At no time I pay attention to the sidebar, so, to me the sidebar is useless and wasted space. I guess, many people behave similarly. It would be better if the total progress bar was located somewhere logically associated with the list of packages, e.g. above or below the list. Also maybe make it taller so that it catches the eye.

Another idea is maybe the Discover UI should hide the sidebar while downloading and installation is in progress and show the total progress bar at the top or bottom of the package list. Take Muon package manager for example. There is UI for searching and selecting packages that has different views and tabs with various package information, searching, filtering and other stuff. When you start the downloading/installation, all that UI changes to a simple list of packages with their progress bars. User's focus unavoidably shifts to the list.

Also, getting back to the package list ordering, I'd like to remind that there is another alternative that I suggested in the description. Which is to maintain a stable order within each of the package groups: packages that are being installed, packages that are being downloaded and pending packages. This would move the packages from one group to another as the progress is made, but not within groups.

I agree with Nate on this one, the current sorting method is fine.

Sorting alphabetically would only mean you end up scrolling down the list to find the packages that are currently being updated anyway, negating the point of sorting alphabetically.

Plus, when you open Discover and are greeted with a list of applications/packages that have pending updates, are you not reading the list *before* clicking update all? Why exactly do you need to find package XYZ *after* you've started the process? Surely you already know what's being updated?

Ideally, you should scan through the list and uncheck any applications/packages you do not want updating before clicking update all. So I'm not really sure what benefit it brings to end users to see applications ordered alphabetically.

I'm reopening this.

This bug doesn't ask specifically to use alphabetical order, rather it suggests this as one possible solution for a problem.

The problem is that the current behavior results in incomprehensible output, where packages rapidly change their order in the list as installation progresses, to the point that one simply can't see which package is being installed. I don't think you can call this behavior intentional, and this bug asks to address this problem, one way or another.

If you don't like the alphabetical order as a solution, fine. Then please suggest another solution that makes the package list more stable.

Do you have any other ideas?

(In reply to Lastique from comment #12)
> I'm reopening this.
> 
> This bug doesn't ask specifically to use alphabetical order, rather it
> suggests this as one possible solution for a problem.
> 
> The problem is that the current behavior results in incomprehensible output,
> where packages rapidly change their order in the list as installation
> progresses, to the point that one simply can't see which package is being
> installed. I don't think you can call this behavior intentional, and this
> bug asks to address this problem, one way or another.

This is not a problem, nor is it a bug, it is a wishlist item.

I don't see this as a problem and yes it is intentional - see comment #1. It is your responsibility to check beforehand which applications or packages are being updated. Discover sorts by progress to give the maximum feedback to the user.

> If you don't like the alphabetical order as a solution, fine. Then please
> suggest another solution that makes the package list more stable.

The list is perfectly stable before you click 'update all'. Read it and untick anything you don't want updating.

Why do you want to watch the updates?

(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #13)
> Do you have any other ideas?

The description offers another option:

2. Order the following groups of packages: packages being installed, packages being downloaded, pending packages. Within each group, order packages alphabetically.

This should mitigate the need for scrolling as all the packages that are being updated would be shown in one group (and those which have been updated - in another group, etc.) The important part is that each group would be presented in a more stable and readable list.

I'll note that I'm not attached to the particular alphabetical order. The lists could be unordered or randomized for all I care. What I care about is that the lists are more stable and readable. Alphabetical order is just something that seems reasonable to me.

(In reply to john.liptrot from comment #14)
> (In reply to Lastique from comment #12)
> > I'm reopening this.
> > 
> > This bug doesn't ask specifically to use alphabetical order, rather it
> > suggests this as one possible solution for a problem.
> > 
> > The problem is that the current behavior results in incomprehensible output,
> > where packages rapidly change their order in the list as installation
> > progresses, to the point that one simply can't see which package is being
> > installed. I don't think you can call this behavior intentional, and this
> > bug asks to address this problem, one way or another.
> 
> This is not a problem, nor is it a bug, it is a wishlist item.

I don't really care how you classify this issue, although to me the current behavior doesn't seem desirable, so I would classify it as a problem. But if you think it is a request for improvement, so be it, whatever.

> I don't see this as a problem and yes it is intentional - see comment #1. It
> is your responsibility to check beforehand which applications or packages
> are being updated. Discover sorts by progress to give the maximum feedback
> to the user.

I don't have a problem with the list with checkboxes to select which updates to install. I have a problem with what is presented to the user once the update process starts. The way the update process is presented, depending on circumstances, can be incomprehensible. *That* is the problem.

> > If you don't like the alphabetical order as a solution, fine. Then please
> > suggest another solution that makes the package list more stable.
> 
> The list is perfectly stable before you click 'update all'. Read it and
> untick anything you don't want updating.
> 
> Why do you want to watch the updates?

Why do you present the updates? (No, this is not a suggestion to not show the updates.)

I do like to see what is happening, which packages are being downloaded and installed. I don't like when I have like a dozen packages being downloaded and installed, and they are presented as a list that is constantly re-shuffled like 60 times per second.

FWIW, I do prefer the old Muon UI style more readable, where each package that is being downloaded and installed is simply added to the list without reordering.

I understand that you like to see what is happening, but this behaviour is intentional, to show the user which package is currently being downloaded/installed by Discover.

I don't at all think it is unreasonable to ask an end user such as yourself to read the updates list before starting the process. That way, you know what is being installed. There is no fundamental requirement for the order of apps to remain stable during the update. This is only a matter of opinion. As per comment #6;

"I can understand that you don't like the dynamic order, but returning to a fixed order would simply swap out your unhappiness for other people's unhappiness."

I'm closing this as intentional.