Bug 454833 - Dutch translation of updates (Bijwerkelement) is a bit awkward
Summary: Dutch translation of updates (Bijwerkelement) is a bit awkward
Status: CONFIRMED
Alias: None
Product: i18n
Classification: Translations
Component: nl (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Platform: Ubuntu Linux
: NOR normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: kde-i18n-nl
URL:
Keywords: usability
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2022-06-04 13:25 UTC by Lena Wildervanck
Modified: 2022-06-06 22:31 UTC (History)
8 users (show)

See Also:
Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In:
Sentry Crash Report:


Attachments
screenshot of a window with the translation (112.62 KB, image/png)
2022-06-04 13:25 UTC, Lena Wildervanck
Details

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Description Lena Wildervanck 2022-06-04 13:25:22 UTC
Created attachment 149452 [details]
screenshot of a window with the translation

SUMMARY
***
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See https://community.kde.org/Guidelines_and_HOWTOs/Debugging/How_to_create_useful_crash_reports
***


STEPS TO REPRODUCE
1. Have updates available with APT
2. Open Discover
3. Look at the bottom left corner of the window

OBSERVED RESULT
It says "Bijwerkelement".

EXPECTED RESULT
I expected it to say something like "beschikbare update's".

SOFTWARE/OS VERSIONS
Linux: 5.15.0-33-generic

(available in About System)
KDE Plasma Version: ?
KDE Frameworks Version: 5.92.0
Qt Version: 5.15.3 (built against 5.15.3)

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
Comment 1 PK 2022-06-06 18:01:52 UTC
I agree. 
I understand that it is a tranlation. So you translate. But in my opinion it looks awkward at least to translate terms that have become very common in a (our) language...
Comment 2 Lena Wildervanck 2022-06-06 18:52:04 UTC
(In reply to PK from comment #1)
> I agree. 
> I understand that it is a tranlation. So you translate. But in my opinion it
> looks awkward at least to translate terms that have become very common in a
> (our) language...

Eh...

My point is that in the current translation (see the screenshot! https://bugsfiles.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=149452 ) "updates" is translated in the code as "Bijwerkelement", which is a word I have never heard before. Can you please change it to "updates"? (Or something in that manner?)
Comment 3 PK 2022-06-06 19:21:07 UTC
Indeed it seems strange to discuss these matters in English. But I saw the name Nate Graham in the header of this bug.  He is very active in the kde community, he keeps these bugs up to date and he is also interested what is going on in the various translation teams. Who knows, people of other languages find this discussion interesting too!
Comment 4 Lena Wildervanck 2022-06-06 19:27:18 UTC
Note, there were some emails on https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-i18n-nl/2022q2/thread.html

Also, just for extra clarity for a third time: The current translation in the source is Bijwerkelement. I think this is a terrible translation, and think "updates" is much better.

People seem to interpret my message as me proposing bijwerkelement as an actual translation which was never the case.
Comment 5 Nate Graham 2022-06-06 19:30:41 UTC
I don't know any Dutch and will trust the folks here to figure out a good solution. :)
Comment 6 PK 2022-06-06 19:36:27 UTC
Lena: ik ben het 100% met je eens... Ik vind "updates" veel beter!
Comment 7 groot 2022-06-06 20:03:43 UTC
(NL) Ter samenvatting:
- Nate heeft hier niets **zelf** mee te maken, hooguit als algemeen proces-begeleider van bugs die in KDE's Bugzilla terecht komen
- De KDE vertalers groep (zie *Assignee*) in Bugzilla is verantwoordelijk voor de vertaling
- Er is een bron-tekst, "Updates", dat vertaald wordt naar "Bijwerkelement" (ik zoek straks uit waar die tekst vandaan komt)
- Die specifieke vertaling is een beetje vreemd (zacht uitgedrukt), en Lena vraagt om dat te verbeteren.
Jullie zijn het met elkaar eens, zo te zien, maar de communicatie is wat stroperig (ik denk gewone keukenstroop).

(EN) Summary: Nate is an innocent bystander, the Dutch translation team is responsible, source-term "Updates" is rather ambiguous (I'll look up where it comes from later), the specific Dutch transation given for "Updates" in Discover is weird. The people in this bug seem to agree, but the communication is messy. And then I go on to make a stupid joke about pancake syrup.

Signed, [ade] (Adriaan de Groot), with KDE-eV-board-hat on.
Comment 8 groot 2022-06-06 20:12:16 UTC
The translations of Discover live at https://websvn.kde.org/trunk/l10n-kf5/nl/messages/discover/ ; most of them in `plasma-discover.po`. I went looking in there (note that "bijwerkitems" is also used in the translation, another peculiar term). Here is the relevant translation block:

```
#: discover/qml/DiscoverWindow.qml:79
#, kde-format
msgctxt "Update section name"
msgid "&Update (%1)"
msgstr "Bijwerk&element (%1)"
```

This tells us where in the source the source-text is, as well as the original string. Importantly, there's a context, saying "Update section name". Personally I don't find that very helpful context, but hey. Looking at the code, I can see that the intention is to display something conveying "there are updates available (this many)". So "Bijwerken (18)", or "Beschikbaar (18)" or "Updates (18)" would *possibly* all be understandable to a Dutch-language consumer of the software. Which one is best is something best left to the actual translation team. In the meantime, the Discover people could be prompted to improve that context description.
Comment 9 Nate Graham 2022-06-06 20:26:18 UTC
I will definitely improve the translation context there. It's not even super clear to me in English what it should be, just looking at that!
Comment 10 Freek de Kruijf 2022-06-06 20:31:37 UTC
In all English->Dutch translations of KDE, the words Update or Updates has been translated as "Element(en) voor bijwerken". The used principle is that for simple Dutch users of KDE, without knowledge of English, Dutch words will be used in the translation. However in Discover this took too much space in the available field, so the shorter word Bijwerkelement was used.
Discussions about how to translate for KDE in Dutch are done on the email list "kde-i18n-nl@kde.org".
Comment 11 Erik Quaeghebeur 2022-06-06 21:20:24 UTC
(In reply to Freek de Kruijf from comment #10)
> In all English->Dutch translations of KDE, the words Update or Updates has
> been translated as "Element(en) voor bijwerken". […]
That sounds quite wrong or at least incomprehensible. I think most Dutch speakers would better understand "updaten" en "een update"/"updates".
Comment 12 Bug Janitor Service 2022-06-06 22:31:00 UTC
A possibly relevant merge request was started @ https://invent.kde.org/plasma/discover/-/merge_requests/315