SUMMARY Hey there, I know this is not the right category, but I don't know where to put it, so I placed it here. If you know a better component, feel free to move it there. :) I'm regularly testing other desktop environments to see how they develop and one thing I noticed and really liked about GNOME is that applications seem to have very descriptive names in general. For example, the file explorer is called "Files", the terminal "Terminal" and the scan application "Document scanner". In plasma, this is not the case. The file explorer is called "Dolphin", the terminal is called "Konsole" and the document scanner is called "Skanlight". How should an inexperienced user know that Dolphin is a file manager, other than looking on the icon and trying? I think, I wouldn't. GNOME's file manager also has an internal name, Nautilus. But it's not exposed to the user directly. I think Plasma should do this as well. Use descriptive, direct names throughout the DE, to make it easier accessible for new users. What are your thoughts? Are there any explicit reasons why not to do that?
If we did this, then anytime you have both Dolphin and Nautilus installed, your application menu would have two apps named "Files". That wouldn't be great. KDE apps already list their descriptions. For example Gwenview has text beside it that says "KDE image viewer". Did yo not notice this? Or you did notice it, but it wasn't enough?
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #1) > If we did this, then anytime you have both Dolphin and Nautilus installed, > your application menu would have two apps named "Files". That wouldn't be > great. > > KDE apps already list their descriptions. For example Gwenview has text > beside it that says "KDE image viewer". Did yo not notice this? Or you did > notice it, but it wasn't enough? That's a point, it wouldn't be great. But, is having two having the same name, but with different icon in a hypothetical scenario worth the tradeoff of users not knowing what the app does (I've let a few non digital-natives try plasma to get their point of view and this was one thing they noticed). Yes, the app description says that it's a file manager, but the description is way smaller than the title and way easier to overlook and my mom for example didn't notice them. So yes, they are (in what I found out) not enough. They also told me that some apps need better defaults to be usable (e.g. Kontakt and KDE's mail app is really not user friendly using the default settings and overwhelming, as well as all customizablility options directly visible in the settings app with confusing categories not always holding what they expected)
I can understand the issue that the subtitle/description is easy to overlook. Let's focus on that, since I don't think we're going to move in the direction of giving our apps boring generic names. I have an open merge request to move the subtitle/description to below the main text, rather than off to the side: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/-/merge_requests/699 You can see the before-and-after images to visualize the proposed change. Do you think that would make made things more obvious to your mom? Or better yet, could you show it to her and ask? And the other people too? If the answer is yes, I would very much appreciate it if you could leave a supportive comment on https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/-/merge_requests/699. :) > They also told me that some apps need better defaults to be usable Can you open separate bug reports for specific issues with the default settings for our apps? Thanks!
Hello Tobias G. , whenever you log in you can use alt f2 or alt space shortcut to reach applications fast and in there whenever you write file it will directly show you dolphin whenever you type terminal it will show you konsole whenever you type scan it will show you skanlight ( this behavior is same in search box in start menu ) As Nate mentioned it will be big problem if these applications named like Files or Terminal also you are missing non-english language users than Files might be meaningless for them when they see it doesnt it ? Also it is same in market when you get in shop you ask for coca-cola even you ask salesman direcly as coke s/he will bring you coca-cola/pepsi but the label still will be not coke
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #3) > I can understand the issue that the subtitle/description is easy to > overlook. Let's focus on that, since I don't think we're going to move in > the direction of giving our apps boring generic names. > > I have an open merge request to move the subtitle/description to below the > main text, rather than off to the side: > https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/-/merge_requests/699 > > You can see the before-and-after images to visualize the proposed change. Do > you think that would make made things more obvious to your mom? Or better > yet, could you show it to her and ask? And the other people too? > > If the answer is yes, I would very much appreciate it if you could leave a > supportive comment on > https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/-/merge_requests/699. :) > > > They also told me that some apps need better defaults to be usable > Can you open separate bug reports for specific issues with the default > settings for our apps? Thanks! Yes, my family members think that showing the description under the title would be better, though a more descriptive name would be optimal. :) The apps could this be called the way they are called now, "just change the desktop files" to show "Files" instead of Dolphin and maybe in the title bar. This way, the apps can keep their creative names internally, while still having descriptive names. :) I'll leave a positive comment later!
(In reply to Ömer Fadıl USTA from comment #4) > Hello Tobias G. , whenever you log in you can use alt f2 or alt space > shortcut to reach > applications fast and in there whenever you write file it will directly > show you dolphin > whenever you type terminal it will show you konsole whenever you type scan > it will show you skanlight > ( this behavior is same in search box in start menu ) > > As Nate mentioned it will be big problem if these applications named like > Files or Terminal also you are missing > non-english language users than Files might be meaningless for them when > they see it doesnt it ? > Also it is same in market when you get in shop you ask for coca-cola even > you ask salesman direcly as coke s/he > will bring you coca-cola/pepsi but the label still will be not coke Yes, that's true, though, for example my father is a mouse-centric desktop user - he doesn't search for files to find the file manager, but he looks in the menu and scrolls through it looking for an application with that name. That's also a reason why more visible descriptions won't completely solve the issue - my father still wouldn't find the application, he doesn't want to read all app descriptions to find what he needs. Names in desktop entries can be translated, so that wouldn't be a problem. :) The analogy also works for me - the application menu shows "Files" as name of the application (you ask for the coke) and Dolphin is opened (he brings you a pepsi).
I think showing the descriptions under the brand names is the best we can do here; we're aren't going the route of using generic names like "Files," "Music Player," or "Image Viewer", sorry. It would reduce those apps' branding power and introduce inconsistency compared to other apps which always display brand names, not generic names.
See https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/-/merge_requests/699
Git commit 0868a5ae8154d10ccc7488034bc5b6e458a17968 by Nate Graham. Committed on 09/08/2022 at 23:54. Pushed by ngraham into branch 'master'. applets/kickoff: add "compact list item style" option and use new tall style by default Kickoff uses an unusual way of locating list items' descriptions: it puts them on the same line as the title, aligned to the right. This saves vertical space but suffers from several issues: - Because both labels need to inhabit the same line, a long title will cause the description to be elided into uselessness - It's a different style than what we use for other list items with fundamentally the same set of data; we don't re-use users' existing familiarity with KDE-style list items that typically have the caption, subtitle, or description below the label/title - Saving vertical space is not a win here because we want the applet to be touch-friendly, and short list items make that worse, not better Accordingly, this MR adds an option to switch the list items between two styles: - The current style, which is now called "compact list item style" - A new default style with the subtitle below the main text, which is more conventional and more touch friendly. This new default list item style is intended to improve the "Gwenview? What's a Gwenview?" effect that users have been complaining about. Despite the fact that the compact/inline list items have a caption that actually tells you what branded apps like Gwenview are, people seem blind to it because they don't expect to see a description in that location. No other KDE list items do this and it's a fairly unusual style outside of KDE as well. When using Touch mode, compact mode is disabled if it was manually activated. | New default setting (tall list items) | compact list items | Config window now | | ------------------------------------- | ------------------ | ----------------- | |  |  |  | FIXED-IN: 5.26 M +4 -0 applets/kickoff/package/contents/config/main.xml R +9 -65 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/AbstractKickoffItemDelegate.qml [from: applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/KickoffItemDelegate.qml - 074% similarity] M +1 -1 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/ApplicationsPage.qml M +17 -0 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/ConfigGeneral.qml M +1 -1 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/FullRepresentation.qml M +1 -1 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/KickoffDropArea.qml A +72 -0 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/KickoffGridDelegate.qml [License: GPL (v2+)] M +1 -4 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/KickoffGridView.qml A +109 -0 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/KickoffListDelegate.qml [License: GPL (v2+)] M +4 -4 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/KickoffListView.qml M +18 -7 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/KickoffSingleton.qml M +1 -1 applets/kickoff/package/contents/ui/PlacesPage.qml https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-desktop/commit/0868a5ae8154d10ccc7488034bc5b6e458a17968