SUMMARY It seems to be fine in Kubuntu, where the software updates are split into "Application updates" whereas in Neon, they all fall under "System upgrade", and you can't pick and choose. It'd be useful to be able to pick and choose, and to show that Discover won't update packages that'll break other packages by not marking them (and giving reason why), unless user triggers it themselves (then force a warning). Right now, the only way I can tell Discover may not install packages that'll break and remove others is by comparing how many are going to be updated vs apt. It just bring s peace of mind. OBSERVED RESULT Neon: most, if not all, updates, fall under "System Upgrade" EXPECTED RESULT Kubuntu: they are separated, and user has some level of control SOFTWARE/OS VERSIONS Operating System: KDE neon Testing Edition KDE Plasma Version: 5.22.5 KDE Frameworks Version: 5.86.0 Qt Version: 5.15.3 Kernel Version: 5.13.0-7614-generic (64-bit) Graphics Platform: X11 Processors: 4 × Intel® Core™ i5-6500 CPU @ 3.20GHz Memory: 15.6 GiB of RAM Graphics Processor: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/PCIe/SSE2 ADDITIONAL INFORMATION There are times when system update will work flawlessly, but end up breaking on reboot because of version mismatch, like with a KWin update I experienced few months ago rendered my system unbootable until I reverted a package. Just something I figured I should share. https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/nc1alq/plasma_wouldnt_start_on_kde_neon_testing/gy2hujv/
Another additional info: Discover is 5.22.5 in Neon Testing
One example I just remembered is Firefox. In Kubuntu, Firefox will be an application update I can upgrade alongside everything else, while in Neon, it has to be updated along with everything else.
> It'd be useful to be able to pick and choose, and to show that Discover won't update packages that'll break other packages by not marking them (and giving reason why), unless user triggers it themselves (then force a warning). > > Right now, the only way I can tell Discover may not install packages that'll break and remove others is by comparing how many are going to be updated vs apt. To clarify, I know there's a built-in warning if it'll remove an essential package, like neon-desktop. I just don't know if there's a system in place that'll make sure that it won't accidentally remove something else if it'll break a package unless they were supposed to be replaced by something else.
On another note, it's a pain to pick and choose via apt on which packages won't remove the essential package.
When using offline updates (as Neon does), all distro package updates are considered system updates because they all require a reboot. I suppose from a user perspective it is indeed a bit confusing to have apps that we know are apps (because they have AppStream metadata) listed as system updates, because in the user's mind those are different things.
*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 435574 ***
Oops, that's not what I meant to do.
Chiming in to update the issue and to share my perspective (hopefully not necroing anything unnecessarily). I agree with you, Nate, and I believe a significant share of users prefer to see updates for "desktop applications" (with appstream data) and "system components" being separated from one another. A non-technical user will probably neither care nor know what an upgrade to <libkf5screen-bin> will do (I certainly don't) but I daresay they will be inclined to update their system if they see their browser or office suite sitting there in the updates list. By glancing over #435574 I believe it's currently not feasible to tell Discover whether a reboot is required after certain package updates or not. While this might be a nuisance for knowledgeable people, I assume the majority of average users does not care and will just reboot their machine in the peace of mind that their system will be up to date AND stable afterwards. "Use Kubuntu then!" would probably not be bad advice, but I think it would add just a tiny bit more polish to the wonderful product that Neon is. =)
FWIW you can turn off offline updating in Neon, and then you'll get your apps listed as apps again. I think for offline updates we should use the normal UI for online updates that already handles this case, and then we should simply remove the checkboxes because you can't do partial offline updates.