Created attachment 137120 [details] Prohibitory sign symbol on cancel buttons SUMMARY I've noticed that Discover (possibly other places in KDE, not sure) is using the "prohibitory sign" or "no symbol" (the circle with slash) as a symbol on "cancel/stop" buttons. It is also used by itself on buttons with no text that are meant to "cancel" some activity like the installation of a package. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_symbol I don't think this is the most appropriate symbol to be using for a "cancel" button or action. The prohibitory sign is normally meant to convey that something is forbidden or unavailable, or that an action can't be completed. Based on its historical usage in computer UIs, it gives the impression that something is "broken" or "not working". The standard for "cancel/stop" that most modern UIs seem to have coalesced around is the graphical squared-off "X" symbol. The same thing that you generally find in the corner of every desktop window or browser/document tab. Everyone knows what it means. The "X" means stop, close, go away, quit, cancel. "Stop doing what you're doing." When I see the prohibitory sign just hovering there in a dialog about software installation, my brain thinks, "What, is something going wrong with the install? Or is the symbol that was supposed to be displayed here not found?" It just doesn't feel right. I have no idea if this is isolated to KDE Neon or a specific global theme or icon theme. I'm putting this in the Discover section because that's where I most frequently notice encountering the symbol. But I notice that it's also on the "Cancel" button in the dialog that comes up asking for authorization to install a package. So maybe it's system-wide and used all over the place. In any case, I've been using KDE Neon for a month or so and that symbol is still weirding me out every time I see it. It just makes me think "something's wrong" or "something's broken", because that is normally when you see that symbol. Like when your Mac can't find its boot drive. That's the symbol that gets displayed when your system is b0rked. When an icon file is missing, or similar situations. The prohibitory sign does mean "no, don't do that", but its intention is normally directed at the person viewing the sign. In this case that is the user. So by using the prohibitory sign, you are in effect telling the user, "no, don't do that". There are many places where that might be appropriate to convey information to the user, but I don't believe that general "cancel/stop" buttons throughout the KDE environment are one of those places. A good use of the prohibitory symbol is when it appears attached to the mouse cursor when you try to drag some object to a place where it can't be dropped. In that case it clearly conveys to the user, "Hey, you can't do that, it won't work". That's helpful. But what it conveys subconsciously when displayed on a cancel button is, "Don't press this button. It won't work, or the results will be bad." I don't think that's the message you really wanted to convey when displaying cancel buttons. Please consider replacing the prohibitory sign with a graphical "X" symbol in these contexts (cancel/stop buttons). If this is just a theming issue I guess that would just make it an issue with the Breeze theme or any other theme that displays symbols on buttons. I'm not sure how it works in KDE. I notice other themes make the symbols disappear from the buttons, but that also means the "text-less" button in the Tasks dialog no longer has a symbol displayed at all, so those buttons become invisible unless you know where they are. And for the themes that do display those symbols on buttons, there must be a code involved with cancel buttons that triggers the display of the prohibitory sign. That code would need to be changed to trigger the display of the "X" symbol instead. I'm just an end user, so I'm not clear on exactly what would be involved to make this make more sense. I guess the text-less buttons that disappear on non-symbol themes is a separate but related issue. That should not be happening. Text-less buttons need their own symbol that is guaranteed to be displayed even if the current theme doesn't replace it. STEPS TO REPRODUCE 1. Install some software in Discover. Look for the cancel button. 2. Look at the cancel button on the authorization dialog. 3. Click on the Tasks... thingie. Look at the button to cancel (no text). Or, see attached screenshot. SOFTWARE/OS VERSIONS Linux/KDE Plasma: 5.21.3 Current KDE Neon User Edition, everything updated.
Interesting point of view. I can see what you mean.
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #1) > Interesting point of view. I can see what you mean. Thank you for saying so. Usually what people say right off the bat is, "Geez, you could have made that a lot shorter." Which is almost always true. LOL. So I see someone moved this from Discover to Breeze. I'm assuming that means it's just the Breeze theme that is responsible for choosing to display this particular symbol on cancel buttons.
Yup that's correct.
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #3) > Yup that's correct. Thanks. I guess I'll make a separate (short) report on Discover to get some attention on the no-label cancel button that disappears when you use a theme that doesn't show the symbols on buttons.
That issue has already been fixed by giving the button text in the next version of Plasma (5.22). However it should never happen in the first place with any kind of decently-made icon theme. Missions icons means that not only does the icon theme lack the icon, but it has also not registered Breeze (or some other icon theme) as a fallback.
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #5) > That issue has already been fixed by giving the button text in the next > version of Plasma (5.22). Oh, that's good news. I am eagerly awaiting 5.22.x for other fixes I've read about. It's looking really good. But seems like there should be a real fix for no-label buttons. Sometimes one wants to use a button with only a symbol and no label. Sometimes it's really appropriate. Now I just wasted an hour putting together the bug report. LOL. > However it should never happen in the first place > with any kind of decently-made icon theme. Missions icons means that not > only does the icon theme lack the icon, but it has also not registered > Breeze (or some other icon theme) as a fallback. Yes, well. I was only playing with some of the "highest rated" and "most downloaded" themes downloaded via the official theme settings module, and already most of them didn't show any button symbols. So apparently there are numerous not-decently-made themes out there. I certainly didn't go around the web looking for half-finished themes to try out. Maybe themes should be excluded from being downloadable via the official settings app until the author puts proper fallbacks in place? Seems like that should be a basic requirement. Just a thought. Thanks for the input.