SUMMARY I found that Plasma uses the wrong names for some Ukrainian cities. What needs to be changed: * Kiev => Kyiv * Uzhgorod => Uzhhorod * Zaporozhye => Zaporizhzhia I only found one place to be fixed, but I'm not sure if this is the only place: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-workspace/-/blob/master/applets/digital-clock/plugin/timezonesi18n.cpp I really hope this will be fixed in Plasma 5.21 or at least 5.21.1. SOFTWARE/OS VERSIONS Linux/KDE Plasma: KDE neon 5.20 KDE Plasma Version: 5.20.5 KDE Frameworks Version: 5.78.0 Qt Version: 5.15.2
Looking into all strings: Kiev: - kdelibs4support/kdelibs4support.po (as "Europe/Kiev" timezone) - kgeography/kgeography.po (3 occurrences) - plasma-settings/kcm_mobile_time.po (1 occurrence) - plasma-workspace/plasma_applet_org.kde.plasma.digitalclock.po (that's the one you just fixed) Uzhgorod: - kdelibs4support/kdelibs4support.po (as "Europe/Uzhgorod" timezone) Zaporozhye: - kdelibs4support/kdelibs4support.po (as "Europe/Zaporozhye" timezone) So from the point of view of this bug, which is focused on plasmashell, the issue is closed. Please don't merge patches to kdelibs4support until next Sunday (there is a release tagging in 3 days), the other component can have a patch even now in the master branch. (plasma-settings is Plasma Mobile, not plasmshell).
Looks like Plasma is doing the right thing, I guess it's up to the translation team to translated the strings differently. Moving to the i18n product.
(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #2) > Looks like Plasma is doing the right thing, I guess it's up to the > translation team to translate the strings differently. Moving to the i18n > product. They have translated accordingly. The bug report is about the original strings. Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzhhorod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia However, the IANA timezones file (europe) [1] includes the following notes: # From Paul Eggert (2018-10-03): # As is usual in tzdb, Ukrainian zones use the most common English spellings. # For example, tzdb uses Europe/Kiev, as "Kiev" is the most common spelling in # English for Ukraine's capital, even though it is certainly wrong as a # transliteration of the Ukrainian "Київ". This is similar to tzdb's use of # Europe/Prague, which is certainly wrong as a transliteration of the Czech # "Praha". ("Kiev" came from old Slavic via Russian to English, and "Prague" # came from old Slavic via French to English, so the two cases have something # in common.) Admittedly English-language spelling of Ukrainian names is # controversial, and some day "Kyiv" may become substantially more popular in # English; in the meantime, stick with the traditional English "Kiev" as that # means less disruption for our users. # Zone NAME STDOFF RULES FORMAT [UNTIL] # This represents most of Ukraine. See above for the spelling of "Kiev". Zone Europe/Kiev 2:02:04 - LMT 1880 # "Uzhhorod" is the transliteration of the Rusyn/Ukrainian pronunciation, but # "Uzhgorod" is more common in English. Zone Europe/Uzhgorod 1:29:12 - LMT 1890 Oct # Zaporozh'ye and eastern Lugansk oblasts observed DST 1990/1991. # "Zaporizhia" is the transliteration of the Ukrainian name, but # "Zaporozh'ye" is more common in English. Use the common English # spelling, except omit the apostrophe as it is not allowed in # portable Posix file names. Zone Europe/Zaporozhye 2:20:40 - LMT 1880 I would rather use our native names, but it is up to the English speakers to decide. [1] https://www.iana.org/time-zones
Apart from the timezones, I guess we can fix the names in kgeography, Right now there is a mix of Kiev and Kyiv in the English strings, and that's wrong anyway. But that's a different bug.
Let me note that in https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-workspace/-/blob/master/applets/digital-clock/plugin/timezonesi18n.cpp, we see the current versions used as string literals, presumably for the purpose of being config file keys. If we change these, then people will lose their current settings unless we ship an update script. As for changing the user-facing strings in the i18n() calls, I don't have any opinions regarding what the best Latin transliteration of the original versions is. But I can confirm that I see "Kiev" much more commonly than "Kyiv". However I have no objections to changing them to ones that Ukrainian speakers find more appropriate.
You see "Kiev" much more commonly because, as noted in the IANA timezones file (europe), it's the most common spelling in English, but for now "Kyiv" is correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KyivNotKiev By the way, Calamares has already switched to "Kyiv": https://github.com/calamares/calamares/blob/ae09537beaf23b9d73ddde6d175e3c01e869629f/lang/tz_en.ts#L1291 So I believe that "Kiev" inside i18nc should be changed to "Kyiv". The same goes for "Uzhhorod" and "Zaporizhzhia".
Fair enough. Wanna submit a merge request?
A possibly relevant merge request was started @ https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-workspace/-/merge_requests/634
A possibly relevant merge request was started @ https://invent.kde.org/plasma-mobile/plasma-settings/-/merge_requests/72
A possibly relevant merge request was started @ https://invent.kde.org/education/kgeography/-/merge_requests/10
A possibly relevant merge request was started @ https://invent.kde.org/frameworks/kdelibs4support/-/merge_requests/7
A possibly relevant merge request was started @ https://invent.kde.org/libraries/kirigami-addons/-/merge_requests/8
Git commit 36385281dc88f211c29e061c17b5bad661098796 by Eugene Popov. Committed on 05/02/2021 at 14:17. Pushed by jbbgameich into branch 'master'. Use native names for Ukrainian cities This patch updates the names of Ukrainian cities according to the Ukrainian-language transliterations for Ukrainian place names. M +3 -3 modules/time/timezonesi18n.cpp https://invent.kde.org/plasma-mobile/plasma-settings/commit/36385281dc88f211c29e061c17b5bad661098796
All the calls are going through i18n() which means they're going through translations. The English name for Kiev is Kiev. For an english person in that time zone, it's the correct string here. The word "Kyiv" should come from the Ukranian translations, in the same place as all other code translations. We can't assume there is just one: "Genf/Genève/Geneva" are all valid to people speaking the native language of Geneva.
One thing that definitely isn't up for discussion is we really need to centralise this. This is a lot of duplicate work for translators.
Edit: I think maybe I've misunderstood. I had assumed you were putting the translation as the US text, but it according to wikipedia the English exonym is ambiguous and both are in use. Personally I can say as an English person I've seen Kiev written many times, but never Kyiv, but I withdraw my initial concerns of the patch.
I don't understand the explanation "Kiev is the most common English spellings". How can Kyiv become "the most common English spellings" if everyone continues to use Kiev? Not fixed because not all requests a merged. David Edmundson, can you also unlock MR for Kirigami Add-ons?
Git commit 3307628652632e94abab0563f695e9e4f0d861c6 by Eugene Popov. Committed on 05/02/2021 at 15:12. Pushed by ngraham into branch 'master'. Use native names for Ukrainian cities This patch updates the names of Ukrainian cities according to the Ukrainian-language transliterations for Ukrainian place names. M +3 -3 src/dateandtime/lib/timezonesi18n.cpp https://invent.kde.org/libraries/kirigami-addons/commit/3307628652632e94abab0563f695e9e4f0d861c6
David: the way I see this, it's like how we call people by the names and pronouns that they prefer. Countries aren't people of course, but there does seem to be a movement among Ukrainians to spell these words differently in Latin alphabets. I guess it would be a little like if Russians began asking non-Russian people to pronounce the name of their capital city "Moskva" instead of "Moscow", or if German People started asking for their country to be called "Deutschland" instead of "Germany". The adjustment might be a bit weird for people used to the old terms, but I think it's nice to use the names and terms that people prefer to be used for themselves and their countries.
Git commit 1295ef72ccfe7c76455ce2287fa99a446d64fe39 by Nate Graham, on behalf of Eugene Popov. Committed on 08/02/2021 at 15:58. Pushed by ngraham into branch 'master'. Use native names for Ukrainian cities This patch updates the names of Ukrainian cities according to the Ukrainian-language transliterations for Ukrainian place names. M +3 -3 applets/digital-clock/plugin/timezonesi18n.cpp https://invent.kde.org/plasma/plasma-workspace/commit/1295ef72ccfe7c76455ce2287fa99a446d64fe39
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Git commit bafa56cc115244214ee184f83507b6df6a0b1074 by Albert Astals Cid, on behalf of Eugene Popov. Committed on 18/10/2021 at 09:56. Pushed by aacid into branch 'master'. Use native names for Ukrainian cities This patch updates the names of Ukrainian cities according to the Ukrainian-language transliterations for Ukrainian place names. M +1 -1 data/asia.kgm M +1 -1 data/europe.kgm M +1 -1 data/world.kgm https://invent.kde.org/education/kgeography/commit/bafa56cc115244214ee184f83507b6df6a0b1074