Bug 429275 - atrocious grammar: internationalization including more/all lowercase option (except formally-named programs)
Summary: atrocious grammar: internationalization including more/all lowercase option (...
Status: RESOLVED NOT A BUG
Alias: None
Product: i18n
Classification: Translations
Component: en_GB (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Platform: Other Linux
: NOR normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: David Edmundson
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2020-11-18 02:16 UTC by David Chmelik
Modified: 2022-07-05 11:30 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

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Description David Chmelik 2020-11-18 02:16:24 UTC
SUMMARY

Many programmers have atrocious grammar, by using uppercase on things that shouldn't have it.  If you write about things you do in the garage, you don't say "I opened the Garage Door to go open the Toolbox to get my Hammer and Nails to work on the Workbench to work on a Wooden Craft Project."  You see?  It's similar with tools, categories, settings, many (not all) programs, and so on, on a computer: almost none are persons, places, or things that are proper nouns (the only uppercase.)  This has always annoyed me and I'd like everything in lowercase except a few things that actually were given proper names (like the GIMP and Inkscape programs for images, but not /usr/bin/mail, my default mail client in root sessions.)  However things like categories in the kicker (development, education, games, graphics, Internet, multimedia, office, science & mathematics, setting, system, utilities, lost & found, help, power & session) and, in addition to settings category, the actual settings in system settings program itself (appearance, workspace, personalization, network, hardware, system administration, etc.) aren't proper nouns.  I know, for the kicker menu I can change them, but that might mess things up, and I can't change them elsewhere.

X/KDE software/package makers have given proper names to dozens of programs that the programmers themselves originally just left lowercase, and in some cases, that's fine (like people need to see there are abbreviations like GIMP, MAngband, not that these are part of KDE, but can run in it... I'm not sure on the case of dozens of KDE programs) but not always.

Another minor issue (but major for me as a mathematician/computer-scientist: ) in technical writing, one must give a full term/word then only define the abbreviation afterwards, but despite plenty of space in the kicker menu, 'Science' isn't abbreviated, but its source, 'Mathematics' is abbreviated.

STEPS TO REPRODUCE
1. Look for bad grammar.
2. Probably find much of it.
3. Can't opt-out.

OBSERVED RESULT

Bad grammar is all over the place.

EXPECTED RESULT

At least have an option to opt-out of certain bad grammar (capitalization similar to some simplistic/challenged non-English speakers capitalize every single word in a sentence) even if for most people (especially Americans) it's common enough now.

SOFTWARE/OS VERSIONS
Linux/KDE Plasma: all
KDE Plasma Version: all
KDE Frameworks Version: all 
Qt Version: all

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
Comment 1 David Redondo 2020-11-18 08:51:09 UTC
It is not "bad grammar" but title case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case
https://hig.kde.org/style/writing/capitalization.html (and other pages on the hig where one should use title case)
Comment 2 David Chmelik 2020-11-18 08:58:14 UTC
The thing is, it's mostly not actual titles (not title case.)
Comment 3 David Edmundson 2020-11-18 13:53:42 UTC
Pick the top worst specific offender, and lets take a look.

I can believe we may have some mistakes, but this report as-is is too vague to be actionable.
Comment 4 David Chmelik 2020-11-19 02:44:12 UTC
I'm unsure which things were made titles that normally aren't but sound most odd that way.  Besides my examples of categories in kicker menu & systemsettings (development, education, games, graphics, Internet (exception,) multimedia, office, science & mathematics, settings, system, utilities, lost & found, help, power & session, appearance, workspace, personalization, network, hardware, system administration, and many sub-categories,) most the user folders (desktop, documents, downloads, videos, pictures, music,) categories in dolphin (places, remote, recent, search for, devices, subcategories but autostart is done right) and most buttons... on menus, I consider it okay as letters are underlined.  I wouldn't call a random category/place/device full of random things (even if some have titles) to be a title in itself, nor recents & 'search for ____' or an 'okay' button, or an unnamed network to be entire section headings... maybe one of these last three is a 'worst offender' but it's hard to tell.  I could make an argument for most the 'titled' things.

I realize the categories kicker & systemsettings probably had people work on separate components or markup areas, and they may consider those titles in themselves... but really, the main creative/titled works there are specific KDE programs, and the entire systemsettings program.  Nevertheless, /usr/[local\/]bin, /usr/[local\/]sbin have specific creative works but programmers tend to not capitalize things there.

I know most people would find that not overdoing titling would start to look weird, because they forgot how proper nouns worked before the GUI desktop PC era... but I think a few people would like the change.

I renamed all my categories in Kicker menu and Dolphin, so maybe that's enough for me... just I end up doing that on almost every installation.
Comment 5 David Chmelik 2022-07-03 04:26:09 UTC
The worst offender is category lists (in menus (kicker, kickoff, top of applications etc.) & sidebars (in file manager (dolphin, konqueror)) because are large multiple instances.  Second-worst (as is only one thing) is buttons.

The KDE style link is now a dead link.  Normally university technical writing classes are done by English experts (professors or their department's certified tutors at a British English level) and if your standards (do you have a new link?) weren't written with their help they're quite likely incorrect.

Please seriously consider my description how it's equivalent to how people never describe (in capitals) a large sequence of average things they might during the day ("I opened the Garage Door to go open the Toolbox to get my Hammer and Nails to work on the Workbench to work on a Wooden Craft Project.)

Whether it's intentional, users who want stricter standards should have opt-out option, though doesn't break functionality so could be put on wishlist.
Comment 6 David Chmelik 2022-07-03 07:19:48 UTC
Of course, I (and some friends/family) use British English KDE.  Another mistake is systemsettings can't find 'alternative' where slang American English (bad grammar dialect) rewrote 'alternate' (not synonym: younger Americans using as such are absolutely incorrect.)  Why would a German project not mainly use British English?

I edited Kicker menu and Dolphin side panel, so those are almost solved except can't lowercase 'devices,' 'places' 'recent,' 'remote,' 'search,'  'recent applications,' 'power/session (nor sub-entries... slash standard is no spaces beside,)'  Sure, some kicker/etc. menu categories can be academic/school/department subjects (development/programming, education, graphics, multimedia, network, system, but not likely games, help, lost & found, office, settings, nor anything in Dolphin) so that way are proper nouns, but same subjects in most (non-academic) usage aren't proper nouns (hence lowercase)... even clearer for those, and two I can't lowercase, and Dolphin sidebar... if you compare/contrast to anything else (Dolphin sidebar categories in normal conversation, Kicker 'recent applications' versus recent physical objects/appliances/tools used, and 'power/session' & etc. versus physical controls) any smart enough person (including British schoolkids who did okay through first year/class/grade) knows those are /never/ capitalized, nor are buttons/dials/knobs/levers/switches & etc... even in most substandard English (many Chinese-written) manuals that make several/many grammar/spelling mistakes, but typically only uppercase their company and maybe (in conjunction) product name.

I don't know all KDE history but was inspired by CDE (apparently inspired by Windows (inspired by Apple))... but the two most popular desktop GUIs' founders/creators were American college dropouts.  Bad grammar dialect country college dropouts set modern GUI text standards... yet most programmers follow!  It's okay to ask a programmer about programming language, not necessarily human language.  That's why I won't necessarily agree saying 'intended' nor your style guides are relevant (in contrast to higher academic English reference/textbooks, such as ones we have from London, etc., and ones from Oxford & Cambridge, and such standards-based technical writing.)

Most programming/developing/engineering years/decades possibly haven't needed to read PC manual recently, so verify yours if buttons are lowercase (and  in physical controls' design/instruction texts for all subjects/industries) and ask why is same different in GUI?  Only because standards were set by bad grammar dialect country college dropouts, not British higher academic English experts.

Having fixed most Kicker menu & Dolphin entries is almost enough, but fixing everywhere is a wish.  Kicker's incorrect capitalization makes me think (stressful) I should be back in university focusing on several such categories again, and you've probably heard using all capitals in chat is like shouting... but when chatters capitalize every word (a few foreigners do) it's same, as is incorrect capitalization: for many years, also feels like shouting!

Incorrect capitalization is harder to read/use.  Try proper English conventions and see if you notice difference.  If you command-line UNIX/GNU/Linux code in a directory/folder with some/many different languages and projects, you most likely made it all lowercase (to decrease typing, and looks nicer, not just there but everywhere.)
Comment 7 David Redondo 2022-07-05 07:26:31 UTC
> British English KDE

British English is a translation of the American English messages in the code
Comment 8 David Edmundson 2022-07-05 11:23:14 UTC
Newer link: https://develop.kde.org/hig/style/writing/capitalization/
Comment 9 David Edmundson 2022-07-05 11:30:52 UTC
Kicker and Dolphin are as intended. 
It matches an established software pattern like the toolbar of the BBC homepage or the sidebar of the wizard when you open libreoffice.