(In reply to Manmohan K from comment #0)

It's right that, Map of India is not right.

But don't you think, the way you articulated, is wrong.


Remember that this is an open-source project and it is maintained by volunteers.

Created attachment 129222 [details]
attachment-12125-0.html

Dear all,
      Sorry for any objectionable words. I do respect Open Source
contributors worldwide.
Please take note of error in Imdian map and initiate corrective measures.
Thanks
Manmohan


On Wed, Jun 10, 2020, 21:10 nilsocket <bugzilla_noreply@kde.org> wrote:

> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422496
>
> nilsocket <nilsocket@gmail.com> changed:
>
>            What    |Removed                     |Added
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                  CC|                            |nilsocket@gmail.com
>
> --- Comment #1 from nilsocket <nilsocket@gmail.com> ---
> (In reply to Manmohan K from comment #0)
>
> It's right that, Map of India is not right.
>
> But don't you think, the way you articulated, is wrong.
>
>
> Remember that this is an open-source project and it is maintained by
> volunteers.
>
> --
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You reported the bug.

It is right, the map of India is not up to date.
It is wrong that Kashmir state is accepted  worldwide as entirely in India.
I long time ago rejected symmetrical claim from the pakistanes side for world map.
It is right that your wording is wrong, a blatant threat not even backed-up by power that could make illusion. In second degree, could be classified as a provocation from a troll.
If you could seriously help us update the map you may open a new ticket with facts, not claims.
Thanks in advance.

(In reply to Laurent G. from comment #3)
> It is right, the map of India is not up to date.
> It is wrong that Kashmir state is accepted  worldwide as entirely in India.
> I long time ago rejected symmetrical claim from the pakistanes side for
> world map.
> It is right that your wording is wrong, a blatant threat not even backed-up
> by power that could make illusion. In second degree, could be classified as
> a provocation from a troll.
> If you could seriously help us update the map you may open a new ticket with
> facts, not claims.
> Thanks in advance.

> It is wrong that Kashmir state is accepted  worldwide as entirely in India.

Do you have any kind of genuine or even philosophically, anything to support this claim of yours.

Whole region of Kashmir rightly belongs to India, because we have documents, We didn't engage on war to get those documents.

As for Israel extents, for example, we use english written wikipedia pages as reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir_(union_territory)
This is not a claim. This is what we've done and try to keep up with.
Personaly, I am curious about your papers and what do pakistani government thinks of them, but this won't change the status of this ticket.

(In reply to Laurent G. from comment #5)
> As for Israel extents, for example, we use english written wikipedia pages
> as reference
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jammu_and_Kashmir_(union_territory)
> This is not a claim. This is what we've done and try to keep up with.
> Personaly, I am curious about your papers and what do pakistani government
> thinks of them, but this won't change the status of this ticket.

The link which you have provided, nowhere mentions that POK rightfully belongs to Pakistan.

For full details, of Kashmir Conflict (This page is politically motivated):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_conflict

And what was your view of the world, many nations through out the world are just dumb to support India.

You mean to say, all defense experts from many nations are dumb but your source of knowledge Wikipedia, which can modified by anybody and any politically motivated group can keep it that way forever is your right source of knowledge.

Well, I'm saying this because I have seen countless no.of instances when the left, liberal or so called intellectuals, have taken so much deceptive/immoral methods to change the narrative.

Here are some links regarding papers:
https://minorityrights.org/minorities/kashmiris/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_of_Accession_(Jammu_and_Kashmir)
http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/documents/instrument_of_accession.html

Historical documents maintained by Kashmiri Pandits: http://ikashmir.net/historicaldocuments/index.html

Left is very much active in our country, especially in Internet world.
this has got to do with USSR and with the deceptive methods Marxists have taken over our Indian education system, all those who are educated are entitled to hate India, demean it...

Anyhow according to your logic, Some Palestine's think Israel shouldn't exist.

Just because Israel government is very active on Internet and on ground countering many things, Israel is able to survive, If Israel government is as sloppy as ours, Israel wouldn't have existed this long.

We have only started trying to fix many blunders now.

Most importantly we have no problem with any kind of community leaving in India, until they are peaceful and they mind their own business.

Many religions(Parsis, Zoroastrians, Jews, Sri-Lankan Tamils, Tibetans, Kashmiri-Pandits, Islamist's, Christians ...) have lived/keep living peacefully in India, through out it's history.

> I am curious about your papers and what do pakistani government
> thinks of them?
They think nothing, why would they spread this, what they say is since it's majorities population is Islam, it should be given to Pakistan and at the end of day, since it is the land of the people, you should ask people Kashmiris, if they want to Join India or not.

Reality, they have sent terrorists, and supported many separatist movements against India.

Their argument is like this:
Consider their exists a guy(Kashmir) who owns big land, with his big family, who taught of living independently.

He is not interested in both his neighbors(India and Pakistan).

Pakistan has pushed it's motives of acquiring Kashmir through force (Military) and physiological warfare by making his own family members against him.

So he went to take help from his other neighbor India, stating I need your help.

India said, what right do we have to help you. It's not rightful from our side to protect you just because the other neighbor(Pakistan) is an enemy of ours.

India said, we have already asked you to join us, If you would have joined us, situation wouldn't have come this far.

Then this land have been annexed to India.

All the support to Pakistan comes from either Politically/Religiously motivated people or from Idiots who never knew what happened but act steadfastly and come to conclusions without common-sense.

Nearly 4 million Kashmiri Pandit's(Hindus) are driven out of their houses, these were the slogans which were raised through out many mosques of kashmir:
"Flee, Convert or Die and leave behind your women."

This is short video of 7m, to get some real view from Indian side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnrq0sc5HNI

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/kashmiri-pandits-offered-three-choices-by-radical-islamists/

Thank you.

It's not up to KDE to decide who *should* own and controls a given piece of territory. Rather, our maps show who *does* control it. For example China sure wishes it controlled Taiwan, but it does not, so Taiwan is shown as a separate country.

Are you objecting that the map of India does not reflect reality regarding which parts of the territory India does control, or are you saying that we should take your side in your conflict with Pakistan because you believe your country rightfully *should* control all of the territory?

(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #7)
> It's not up to KDE to decide who *should* own and controls a given piece of
> territory. Rather, our maps show who *does* control it.
I think we can improve the situation by marking such territories as "claimed but not controlled".

By the way, the data for Ukraine needs review to reflect the current situation of Crimea.

How about following United Nation's Resolutions when available (and if not available, show who does control the territory)?
For this option, Crimea will be marked under Ukraine (UN General Assembly Resolution 68/262), and Taiwan will be marked under China (UN General Assembly Resolution 2758).

(In reply to mpykpwkp from comment #8)
> (In reply to Nate Graham from comment #7)
> > It's not up to KDE to decide who *should* own and controls a given piece of
> > territory. Rather, our maps show who *does* control it.
> I think we can improve the situation by marking such territories as "claimed
> but not controlled".
> 
> By the way, the data for Ukraine needs review to reflect the current
> situation of Crimea.
> 
> How about following United Nation's Resolutions when available (and if not
> available, show who does control the territory)?
> For this option, Crimea will be marked under Ukraine (UN General Assembly
> Resolution 68/262), and Taiwan will be marked under China (UN General
> Assembly Resolution 2758).
Seems to me like we should follow reality rather than what the world's governments would prefer reality to be. China does *not* control Taiwan, so it doesn't make sense to mark it as disputed or a part of China. If China wants for Taiwan to be a part of China, it will have to acquire Taiwan through diplomatic or military means. 

Similarly, Ukraine no longer controls Crimea after losing it in a war with Russia, so for all intents and purposes, it is a part of Russia now. This is obviously not what the Ukrainian governments would prefer, but that's what happens when you lose a military conflict: somebody else takes some of your stuff. If your neighboring countries are unfriendly or hostile and you don't want them to take your stuff, you need to be willing and able to defend that stuff from military conquest. It sucks, but that's how the world works, and has always worked, and probably always will work.

I'm sure many KDE contributors have strong feelings on these events and situations--especially those who are geographically close to the territories in question, or who live inside them. However as for KDE itself as an organization, it's not its place to pass judgment on any of this, just to faithfully record the current state of reality. It's up to other people in other organizations to change that reality if they don't like it.

(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #9)
> Seems to me like we should follow reality rather than what the world's
> governments would prefer reality to be. 
This seems fair and feasible for territories like Crimea and Taiwan.

But the situation in the West Bank seems to be a lot more complicated, according to this map (available on Wikimedia) [1] which shows the "control status of the West Bank as per the Oslo Accords".

Is there any good way to faithfully record the current state of reality in the West Bank / Israel / Palestine?

[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Control_status_of_the_West_Bank_as_per_the_Oslo_Accords.svg

Personally I would call them "Occupied territories", as they are neither independent, nor fully governed by and integrated into the state of Israel or another state.

(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #7)
> It's not up to KDE to decide who *should* own and controls a given piece of
> territory. Rather, our maps show who *does* control it. For example China
> sure wishes it controlled Taiwan, but it does not, so Taiwan is shown as a
> separate country.
> 
> Are you objecting that the map of India does not reflect reality regarding
> which parts of the territory India does control, or are you saying that we
> should take your side in your conflict with Pakistan because you believe
> your country rightfully *should* control all of the territory?

It's true that our country should rightfully control all the territory.

But I definitely don't want you take sides.

Recently, J&K and Ladakh are made into independent territories.
Which is reflected here:

http://www.surveyofindia.gov.in/files/Political%20Map%20of%20India.jpg
https://indiamaps.gov.in/soiapp/

Here India does claim all of J&K and Ladakh area, but some parts are controlled by Pakistan and China.

I'm okay, if you reflect the current state of reality.

But one thing which can be done, is mark disputed areas as such.

For say, I'm looking at Indian Country, then you can mark areas which are controlled by Pakistan and China as Disputed area from Indian side.

When I'm looking at Pakistan Country, then you can mark whole J&K and Ladakh as disputed areas, from Pakistan's perspective.

Correction Needed:
1. Indian State Andhra Pradesh has been split into two states, namely:
   -  Andhra Pradesh
   -  Telangana (has more districts than previous one)
2. J&K has been split into two Union Territories:
   -  Jammu and Kashmir
   -  Ladakh
3. Add Disputed regions as such from all perspectives:
   -  Pakistan and China occupied territories as disputed area from Indian's Perspective.
   -  J&K, Ladakh as disputed area from Pakistan's Perspective.

Show all countries as they claim, but if controlled by others, then show it as disputed area.

Thank you.

*** Bug 462388 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Hopefully these two links can help KDE developers:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputed_territories

https://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/File:DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf
(2013 OSMF position paper, Information for officials and diplomats of countries and entities with disputed territories)

*** Bug 434572 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***