Bug 264537 - Sundtek DVB stick isn't recognized by solid anymore
Summary: Sundtek DVB stick isn't recognized by solid anymore
Alias: None
Product: solid
Classification: Frameworks and Libraries
Component: libsolid-udev (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Platform: Ubuntu Linux
: NOR normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Lukáš Tinkl
Depends on:
Reported: 2011-01-27 21:57 UTC by Jan
Modified: 2018-09-04 15:46 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In:
Sentry Crash Report:

output of $solid-hardware list details (28.48 KB, text/plain)
2011-02-01 14:42 UTC, Jan
output of $SOLID_HAL_LEGACY=1 solid-hardware list details (54.13 KB, text/plain)
2011-02-01 14:42 UTC, Jan

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Description Jan 2011-01-27 21:57:55 UTC
Version:           unspecified (using KDE 4.6.0) 
OS:                Linux

i can't provide many informations by now. It seems like solid doesn't recognize the stick anymore, as kaffeine tells me the device isn't connected, but it actually is. The stick is working using me-tv or any other application which doesn't use solid.
It worked using KDE SC 4.5.5 and stopped after upgrading to 4.6 last night.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
Use Sundtek MediaTV Pro Stick and KDE SC 4.6
Installation following http://support.sundtek.com/index.php?topic=2.0

Actual Results:  
Kaffeine tells me no proper device is detected and in the settings the device is listed, as it worked until KDE 4.6, but listed as not connected

Expected Results:  
kaffeine should play the selected TV programm

janmalte@ubuntu:~$ kaffeine --nofork 
QInotifyFileSystemWatcherEngine::addPaths: inotify_add_watch failed: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
QFileSystemWatcher: failed to add paths: /home/janmalte/.config/ibus/bus
Bus::open: Can not get ibus-daemon's address. 
IBusInputContext::createInputContext: no connection to ibus-daemon 

anmalte@ubuntu:~$ cat .kde/share/config/kaffeinerc
RecordingFolder=/home/janmalte/Videos/TV Aufnahmen

janmalte@ubuntu:~$ cat .kde/share/apps/kaffeine/config.dvb 
frontendName=Sundtek DVB-C

janmalte@ubuntu:~$ dmesg | grep DVB

janmalte@ubuntu:~$ ls /dev/dvb/adapter0
demux0  dvr0  frontend0

janmalte@ubuntu:~$ dmesg | grep Sun
[   23.883456] input: Sundtek Ltd. Remote Control as /devices/virtual/input/input4
[ 6442.838557] input: Sundtek Ltd. Remote Control as /devices/virtual/input/input5
[32514.348396] input: Sundtek Ltd. Remote Control as /devices/virtual/input/input6
Comment 1 Alex Fiestas 2011-01-28 01:39:33 UTC
Try by executing kaffeine this way:

"SOLID_HAL_LEGACY=1 kaffeine"

Comment 2 Jan 2011-01-28 10:07:06 UTC
Thanks. Kaffeine is working this way. Will this be fixed in any way or do i have to create a new menu entry for kaffeine with this command?
Comment 3 Alex Fiestas 2011-01-28 12:02:39 UTC
That means that it works with the old HAL backend, so the problem is within the UDEV backend.

I'm going to take a look at how you can provide more information so we can fix the bug in a proper way.
Comment 4 Alex Fiestas 2011-01-28 12:04:30 UTC
Just to be sure, can you check what udev packages do you have installed? and maybe some information about your distro?

Comment 5 Jan 2011-01-28 12:22:01 UTC
janmalte@ubuntu:~$ dpkg --get-selections | grep udev
libgudev-1.0-0                                  install
libudev0                                        install
system-config-printer-udev                      install
udev                                            install
janmalte@ubuntu:~$ uname -a
Linux ubuntu 2.6.35-25-generic #44-Ubuntu SMP Fri Jan 21 17:40:44 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux

My system is a Kubuntu 10.10 using KDE SC 4.6 from Backports PPA upgraded from 4.5.5 at 26.01.2011 in the evening.

Do you need any other information?
Comment 6 Pino Toscano 2011-02-01 14:13:20 UTC
Can you please paste the results of:
$ solid-hardware list details
$ SOLID_HAL_LEGACY=1 solid-hardware list details
Comment 7 Jan 2011-02-01 14:42:13 UTC
Created attachment 56744 [details]
output of $solid-hardware list details
Comment 8 Jan 2011-02-01 14:42:42 UTC
Created attachment 56745 [details]
output of $SOLID_HAL_LEGACY=1 solid-hardware list details
Comment 9 Markus Rechberger 2011-02-16 12:45:56 UTC
The problem is that there are no udev entries available for those devices, all they have are entries in /dev/dvb

Since HAL offered a unix domain socket for device registration we used that one to add some preferences of our devices however udev does not offer such a feature yet.

If one of you guys needs a sample device for testing the behavior of this we can ship one.
Comment 10 Johannes Schmidt 2011-08-18 06:03:20 UTC
This still happens in KDE-4.7.0

Hal is deprecated and not used by any distribution or desktop anymore so installing it is no option for me.

Is there any resolution in sight?
Comment 11 Alex Fiestas 2011-10-08 12:46:20 UTC
Seems that sundtek is shipping now udev rules for their cards, can you test them and see if this bug is now fixed?

Comment 12 Markus Rechberger 2011-10-08 12:52:00 UTC
The problem is a general issue of KDE.

There are several other ways to include DVB devices in Linux.

1. Userspace drivers
2. Network drivers
3. Kernel Systemdrivers (old way which exist first)

The old way uses udev and entries in /sys to expose a device to a system, alternative drivers or interfaces won't be able to do that.

We provide some patch for kaffeine to check /dev/dvb for changes

Patches for Kaffeine can be found:

The udev rules only create USB raw device nodes in the system.
Comment 13 Markus Rechberger 2011-10-08 12:54:29 UTC
By the way, there is a network box upcoming, which can use the device via Network, so we cover case 1 and case 2 but are not able to satisfy case 3.

The network feature already exists in software and can be used with 2 Linux PCs or a Linux Router.
Comment 14 Alex Fiestas 2013-02-24 13:54:13 UTC
What is the status of this? is it any better with current kernel and driver? is there anything we should do?

Thanks !
Comment 15 Markus Rechberger 2013-02-24 15:49:03 UTC
The problem is that is that the solid DVB hardware detection is bound to real devices only which use udev and sysfs.

However it is possible to write drivers on application level which neither use udev nor sysfs, so solid won't pick them up.
Eg. our virtual network devices won't be recognized by solid.

The only workaround which is currently available is to patch the application, however the main issue is within the KDE hardware detection that it's not flexible enough.
Comment 16 Alex Fiestas 2013-02-24 23:17:16 UTC
Well, how can we list those devices? is there any way? we could cook a backend for libsolid to list them but we need to know how to do it.
Comment 17 Markus Rechberger 2013-02-24 23:28:26 UTC
As mentioned we have some workaround for that for Kaffeine


This is checking inodes in /dev/dvb rather than sysfs entries

If something like that would be included the network streaming server would also be supported out of the box again.
Comment 18 Alex Fiestas 2013-07-28 20:48:04 UTC
Can't this devices be listed with udev?

UDev is the standard way of doing such things in linux, adding a specific backend for a specific hardware seems like a workaround :/
Comment 19 Markus Rechberger 2013-07-29 03:42:24 UTC
Unfortunately no.

Please note this is all a little bit special, we can even use the devices via network.

In the early days it worked because the driver sent HAL messages on device attach/detach, now since HAL is gone on Linux that way doesn't work anymore.

We'd dig into KDE however we're busy with our upcoming devices at the moment...
Comment 20 Markus Rechberger 2014-02-22 12:30:54 UTC
Maybe we should just close this issue?

Seems like this issue is not getting fixed with KDE so we just drop support for KDE based DVB applications. KDE cannot recognize our application based DVB drivers (or application based DVB network drivers) which do not emit udev signals or expose information in /sys. Old KDE libraries supported a virtual registration via HAL, the current KDE library broke this behavior.
Comment 21 Christoph Feck 2014-03-12 20:46:23 UTC
Alex, does comment #19 provide the requested information? Please set the bug status.
Comment 22 Christoph Feck 2014-04-21 11:17:30 UTC
No response, changing status. Please close if this cannot be supported.
Comment 23 Markus Rechberger 2014-12-05 08:57:59 UTC
We modified kaffeine, the modification is upstream so it won't be a problem anymore.

Solid is not flexible enough for hardware detection it should not be used for hardware detection.
Linux, Windows, Mac, Solaris all of them allow userspace drivers nowadays, only restricting this to kernel drivers is technology of the past but definitely not the current state of art.
Comment 24 Luigi Toscano 2014-12-05 22:42:48 UTC
For the record, for people who will land here in future without previous knowledge of the issue, the problem was discussed in the past (on IRC) and solution were proposed. Solid *is* flexible enough if you write a backend for your devices only. 
The patch which landed in Kaffeine (whose code quality can be questionable) is not the "proper" mantaineable solution.
Comment 25 Markus Rechberger 2014-12-05 23:07:56 UTC
It shouldn't have broke in first instance (for years already) when solid went mainstream, writing a backend requires another full KDE update which will take much more time. the less dependencies the better it is for hardware detection.
Comment 26 Luigi Toscano 2014-12-05 23:11:19 UTC
(In reply to Markus Rechberger from comment #25)
> It shouldn't have broke in first instance (for years already) when solid
> went mainstream, writing a backend requires another full KDE update which
> will take much more time. the less dependencies the better it is for
> hardware detection.
Nothing was broken, a new unknown (from udev point of view) device was introduced. Moreover, this bug was filed in 2011, we had enough releases to include a new backend. There is still time to add one for Frameworks.
Comment 27 Jonathan Riddell 2015-03-11 19:10:52 UTC
This bug is reported on libsolid which is the kdelibs4 version of the solid library.  It is now in maintenance mode.  If you think it should still be fixed in the KDE Frameworks 5 version of solid please move it to or report a bug on frameworks-solid.
Comment 28 Andrew Crouthamel 2018-09-04 15:46:02 UTC
Hello! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this project has been unmaintained for many years so I am closing this bug. Please try again with the latest version and submit a new bug to frameworks-solid if your issue persists. Thank you!