Bug 262074 - no face are detected
Summary: no face are detected
Status: RESOLVED UPSTREAM
Alias: None
Product: digikam
Classification: Applications
Component: Faces-Detection (show other bugs)
Version: 2.0.0
Platform: Unlisted Binaries Linux
: NOR normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Digikam Developers
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2011-01-04 14:30 UTC by Julien Narboux
Modified: 2017-07-26 17:59 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In: 2.0.0
Sentry Crash Report:


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Description Julien Narboux 2011-01-04 14:30:53 UTC
Version:           2.0.0 (using KDE 4.5.3) 
OS:                Linux

Using 2.0.0 beta 1 I tried to detect some faces. I click on "scan collection for faces" after a few minutes, the progress bar is still moving but the process is finished and I can click on close. But I can not see any picture in the people/unknown tag.  The view on the right is completely empty. I can not scroll (as in Gilles' report).

If I go back to album view and preview a pciture, if I click on "add a face tag" nothing happens and I can not see any face tag.


Reproducible: Always
Comment 1 Julien Narboux 2011-01-04 14:37:30 UTC
I forgot to say that I tried to change sensitivity and rerun face detection without success.

Julien
Comment 2 caulier.gilles 2011-01-04 15:49:11 UTC
Do you have installed OpenCV data files ? Under mandriva it's a separate rpm for ex.

Here, all work fine...

Gilles Caulier
Comment 3 Julien Narboux 2011-01-04 16:29:58 UTC
I am runing ubuntu 10.10 and i installed all libcv, libcv-dev libcvaux libcv4 packages.
The files such as  haarcascade_frontalface_alt2.xml ... are not installed by the packages libcv* packages but by the opencvdoc package in 
/usr/share/doc/opencvdoc/examples/haarcascades/haarcascades/haarcascade_frontalface_alt2.xml.gz

Is this the problem ? digikam needs this ?

Julien
Comment 4 caulier.gilles 2011-01-04 17:05:35 UTC
yes, haar cascade files are mandatory

Gilles Caulier
Comment 5 Alex 2011-01-04 22:24:03 UTC
K so it seems that in a lot of places the default installs are different. Can we try to compile a list of places that packages install cascades and I can add them to the code so we can anticipate this. Otherwise I might add a parameter to specify the location of the cascades as so many people have them in different directories.


Alex

On 4 Jan 2011, at 15:29, Julien Narboux wrote:

> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=262074
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- Comment #3 from Julien Narboux <Julien narboux fr>  2011-01-04 16:29:58 ---
> I am runing ubuntu 10.10 and i installed all libcv, libcv-dev libcvaux libcv4
> packages.
> The files such as  haarcascade_frontalface_alt2.xml ... are not installed by
> the packages libcv* packages but by the opencvdoc package in 
> /usr/share/doc/opencvdoc/examples/haarcascades/haarcascades/haarcascade_frontalface_alt2.xml.gz
> 
> Is this the problem ? digikam needs this ?
> 
> Julien
> 
> -- 
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-- Albert Einstein
Comment 6 Julien Narboux 2011-01-05 00:56:23 UTC
After searching into ubuntu packages, it seems that these files are considered as examples and hence are not shipped with opencv but are shipped with the applications using them. Maybe digikam should also include a copy of these files.
Anyway there should be an error message appearing in the gui if the file can not be found, otherwise we will get many similar bug reports.

Julien
Comment 7 Julien Narboux 2011-01-05 10:20:23 UTC
Thanks for your help.

Under ubuntu 10.10, copying and uncompressing the haarcascades solved the issue:

sudo cp -R /usr/share/doc/opencv-doc/examples/haarcascades/haarcascades /usr/share/opencv/
cd /usr/share/opencv/haarcascades
sudo gunzip *.gz

Julien
Comment 8 caulier.gilles 2011-01-05 14:02:47 UTC
Alex,

How to solve this issue ? haar cascade files must be included in libface ?

Gilles Caulier
Comment 9 Marcel Wiesweg 2011-01-05 15:03:35 UTC
No, we should not include them: It's 20 MB. That will be ten or twenty times the size of the package, all of it duplicated.

And these files are not examples. They were created by researchers in a pretty involved process from large datasets, then made available publicly. You dont do that in an afternoon. It is the collection of haarcascades available freely in this world. So e.g. file a bug against Ubuntu.
Comment 10 caulier.gilles 2011-01-05 15:12:00 UTC
Thanks Marcel, so i close this file now...

Gilles Caulier
Comment 11 Julien Narboux 2011-01-05 15:15:27 UTC
Ok Marcel,

I will file a bug against ubuntu. But there is still a problem in digiKam, if the files are missing there should be an error message in the gui not in the console I think.

Julien
Comment 12 LoneStar 2011-01-05 17:15:57 UTC
On my system, opencv is complete with haarcascades files, located in /usr/share/opencv/haarcascades, but digikam looks for them at /haarcascades.

I have had to create symbolic link /haarcascades -> /usr/share/opencv/haarcascades and now it works.

How come it has detected an unexisting path for those files? is it hardcoded? I haven't found an option to change haarcascades path in digikam properities.

(system is Slackware64 current)
Comment 13 Julien Narboux 2011-01-06 10:08:42 UTC
A bug has been filed in Ubuntu bug tracking system here:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/opencv/+bug/698016
Comment 14 phanisvara das 2011-01-07 07:04:05 UTC
face detection doesn't work in openSUSE 11.4 (factory) with KDE RC2 (K:D:F) either. after downloading & unpacking opencv-doc from ubuntu repos, i found that they were alredy included in the opencv package i'd installed. also providing a symlink in / doesn't help, as it did according to #12.

i'll try to compile digikam2 from source now, let's see what happens...
Comment 15 Vince 2011-01-07 22:26:50 UTC
I'm under kubuntu 10.10 and the face detection does not work.
  following this thread I tried
"sudo apt-get install-dev libcv libcv libcvaux libcv4
=>
E: Could not find package libcv
E: Could not find package libcvaux
E: Could not find package libcv4
"
libcv-dev was already installed

Then I try

"sudo apt-get install opencv-doc

sudo cp-R / usr / share / doc / opencv-doc / examples / haarcascades / haarcascades / usr / share / opencv /
cd / usr / share / opencv / haarcascades
sudo gunzip *. gz "

Despite this manipulation, the face-detection "does not work

may be necessary to recompile it digikam?
Comment 16 Julien Narboux 2011-01-08 08:12:59 UTC
Vince,

how did you get digikam 2.0.0 beta 1 ?  can you lis the files in  /usr/share/opencv/haarcascades ?

Julien
Comment 17 Vince 2011-01-08 12:06:09 UTC
I get get digikam 2.0.0 beta 1 here : http://sourceforge.net/projects/digikam/files

the files in my /usr/share/opencv/haarcascades are :


haarcascade_eye_tree_eyeglasses.xml
haarcascade_eye.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_alt2.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_alt_tree.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_alt.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_default.xml
haarcascade_fullbody.xml
haarcascade_lefteye_2splits.xml
haarcascade_lowerbody.xml
haarcascade_mcs_eyepair_big.xml
haarcascade_mcs_eyepair_small.xml
haarcascade_mcs_lefteye.xml
haarcascade_mcs_mouth.xml
haarcascade_mcs_nose.xml
haarcascade_mcs_righteye.xml
haarcascade_mcs_upperbody.xml
haarcascade_profileface.xml
haarcascade_righteye_2splits.xml
haarcascade_upperbody.xml

thanks for your work and your interest
Comment 18 Julien Narboux 2011-01-08 12:30:44 UTC
What do you mean exactly by does not work ? what are the symptoms ? can you run digikam in a console to check if there are some error messages about haarcascades ?

Julien
Comment 19 Vince 2011-01-08 16:10:08 UTC
ok it's work

launching Digikam in a terminal show me that Digikam for cascades files at /haarcascades like in comment #12 so i create a symbolic link like this :

sudo ln -s /usr/share/opencv/haarcascades /haarcascades

and the face-detection scanner work fine

Thanks for your work, For me Digikam is the best photo-manager
Comment 20 Marcel Wiesweg 2011-01-11 13:10:45 UTC
This must be fixed in libface's CMake files.
Obviously, an empty string is detected for location of opencv, to which "/haarcascades" is appended.
Comment 21 Roland Wolters 2011-01-15 00:51:42 UTC
Just fyi:
I am on Fedora 14, using a self prepared digikam 2.0 rpm. I had to add the link to /haarcascades as well.
Comment 22 Adam Spiers 2011-01-29 22:37:24 UTC
For me, neither 2.0.0-beta1 nor 2.x svn branch ever detect any faces -
the detection completes OK, but the People/Unknown tag always remains
with zero pictures.  My opencv looks correctly installed, and I tried
making the /haarcascades symlink, but it didn't help.  When I run
digikam through strace -e file and look for file syscalls involving
the haarcascades files, I don't see any. Also, the binary links
against libkface, but not libface - surely that is not right?

$ pmap `pgrep -f /opt/digikam2/bin/digikam` | grep face
00007f2b36341000    316K    200K    200K      0K      0K r-xp /opt/digikam2/lib64/libkface.so.1.0.0
00007f2b36390000   2048K      0K      0K      0K      0K ---p /opt/digikam2/lib64/libkface.so.1.0.0
00007f2b36590000      4K      4K      4K      4K      0K r--p /opt/digikam2/lib64/libkface.so.1.0.0
00007f2b36591000      8K      8K      8K      8K      0K rw-p /opt/digikam2/lib64/libkface.so.1.0.0
$ ldd /opt/digikam2/lib64/libkface.so.1.0.0 | grep face

Any other ideas?

Finally, this is marked as RESOLVED UPSTREAM but I can't see anywhere
that it has been reported upstream:

  https://code.ros.org/trac/opencv/report/6
  http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/libface/report/6

Is it a libface issue or an opencv issue?
Comment 23 Adam Spiers 2011-01-29 23:00:38 UTC
I did some investigation under my svn working directory and found
these relevant lines:

build/CMakeCache.txt:OpenCV_DIR:PATH=/usr/share/opencv
extra/libkface/libface/LibFace.h:    LibFace(Mode type = ALL, const std::string& configDir = ".", const std::string& cascadeDir = std::string(OPENCVDIR)+"/data/haarcascades");
extra/libkface/libface/LibFace.h:    LibFace(Mode type = ALL, const std::string& configDir = ".", const std::string& cascadeDir = std::string(OPENCVDIR)+"/haarcascades");
extra/libkface/libface/LibFaceConfig.h.cmake:#define OPENCVDIR "@OpenCV_DIR@"
Comment 24 Marcel Wiesweg 2011-01-30 15:12:31 UTC
> Also, the binary links
> against libkface, but not libface - surely that is not right?

Indeed - but I dont think libkface will link without libface. It's not an optional dependency.

ldd /usr/lib64/libkface.so | grep libface
        libface.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libface.so.0 (0x00007f6c9e26b000)
ldd /usr/bin/digikam | grep libface
        libface.so.0 => /usr/lib64/libface.so.0 (0x00007f43d9649000)

> Any other ideas?

Where are your haarcascades installed then? In /usr/share/opencv/(data/)haarcascades ?

ls /usr/share/opencv/haarcascades/
haarcascade_eye_tree_eyeglasses.xml   haarcascade_lefteye_2splits.xml    haarcascade_mcs_righteye.xml
haarcascade_eye.xml                   haarcascade_lowerbody.xml          haarcascade_mcs_upperbody.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_alt2.xml      haarcascade_mcs_eyepair_big.xml    haarcascade_profileface.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_alt_tree.xml  haarcascade_mcs_eyepair_small.xml  haarcascade_righteye_2splits.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_alt.xml       haarcascade_mcs_lefteye.xml        haarcascade_upperbody.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_default.xml   haarcascade_mcs_mouth.xml
haarcascade_fullbody.xml              haarcascade_mcs_nose.xml

> 
> Finally, this is marked as RESOLVED UPSTREAM but I can't see anywhere
> that it has been reported upstream

We mark as upstream if it is an issue we cannot fix by changing any digikam C++ or CMake code, here it was pretty obviously a problem of installing packages and having files in place. I will certainly not open a bug report for a distribution which I do not use.
Comment 25 Adam Spiers 2011-01-30 15:41:13 UTC
(In reply to comment #24)
> > Also, the binary links
> > against libkface, but not libface - surely that is not right?
> 
> Indeed - but I dont think libkface will link without libface. It's not an
> optional dependency.

So how did this happen with my build?

$ ldd /opt/digikam2/bin/digikam | grep face 
	libkface.so.1 => /opt/digikam2/lib64/libkface.so.1 (0x00007f078e09f000)
$ ldd /opt/digikam2/lib64/libkface.so | grep face 

Here is the extract from my digikam cmake output:

-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Starting CMake configuration for: libkface
-- Found Qt-Version 4.7.1 (using /usr/bin/qmake)
-- Found Qt-Version 4.7.1 (using /usr/bin/qmake)
-- Found X11: /usr/lib64/libX11.so
-- Found KDE 4.6 include dir: /usr/include
-- Found KDE 4.6 library dir: /usr/lib64
-- Found the KDE4 kconfig_compiler preprocessor: /usr/bin/kconfig_compiler
-- Found automoc4: /usr/bin/automoc4
-- Check LibFace library using pkg-config...
-- WARNING: you are using the obsolete 'PKGCONFIG' macro use FindPkgConfig
-- PKGCONFIG() indicates that libface is not installed (install the package which contains libface.pc if you want to support this feature)
-- Cannot find LibFace library!
-- First try at finding OpenCV...
-- Great, found OpenCV on the first try.
-- External libface was not found, use internal version instead...
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does the last line mean that it is automatically using the internal
version, or that I have to do something before it will use the
internal version?  If so, what?

> Where are your haarcascades installed then? In
> /usr/share/opencv/(data/)haarcascades ?

Yep:

$ ls /usr/share/opencv/haarcascades 
haarcascade_eye_tree_eyeglasses.xml   haarcascade_mcs_eyepair_small.xml
haarcascade_eye.xml                   haarcascade_mcs_lefteye.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_alt2.xml      haarcascade_mcs_mouth.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_alt_tree.xml  haarcascade_mcs_nose.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_alt.xml       haarcascade_mcs_righteye.xml
haarcascade_frontalface_default.xml   haarcascade_mcs_upperbody.xml
haarcascade_fullbody.xml              haarcascade_profileface.xml
haarcascade_lefteye_2splits.xml       haarcascade_righteye_2splits.xml
haarcascade_lowerbody.xml             haarcascade_upperbody.xml
haarcascade_mcs_eyepair_big.xml

> > Finally, this is marked as RESOLVED UPSTREAM but I can't see anywhere
> > that it has been reported upstream
> 
> We mark as upstream if it is an issue we cannot fix by changing any digikam C++
> or CMake code, here it was pretty obviously a problem of installing packages
> and having files in place.

Sure - so which project is the problem with: libkface, libface, or
opencv?  I checked the bug databases for all three and I couldn't see
it reported in any of them, so I am wondering if anyone else is aware
of the problem.

> I will certainly not open a bug report for a distribution which I do
> not use.

Sure - distributions are downstream not upstream, anyway.  I agree
it's pointless submitting distro bugs for this OpenCV_DIR path issue,
because it is not distro-specific (I am on openSUSE 11.3, for
instance).  That's why I am checking that a bug really has been filed
upstream.

Thanks for your continued help!
Comment 26 Marcel Wiesweg 2011-01-30 17:57:14 UTC
Ok, the linking is not our problem, if no system libface is found an internal version is compiled in, not linked. Wrong track. It wouldn't compile otherwise.

There is a line of output from libface where it gives the directory it is using:
"Cascade directory located as : " << cascadeDir
probably when you begin face detection. 

Btw, I think we closed as upstream because of the "/haarcascades" symlink problem in libface.
Comment 27 Adam Spiers 2011-01-31 11:24:15 UTC
(In reply to comment #26)
> Ok, the linking is not our problem, if no system libface is found an internal
> version is compiled in, not linked. Wrong track. It wouldn't compile otherwise.

OK, that's what I suspected.

> There is a line of output from libface where it gives the directory it is
> using:
> "Cascade directory located as : " << cascadeDir
> probably when you begin face detection.

Yep - I see this:
 
  Cascade directory located as : /usr/share/opencv/haarcascades

but still I get zero photos with the People/Unknown tag, even if I
slide the top slide bar all the way to the right towards Accurate and
the bottom one all the way to the left towards Sensitive.  What can I
check next?  In case it helps, here is the STDOUT/STDERR log:

  http://adamspiers.org/computing/digikam/digikam2.log

> Btw, I think we closed as upstream because of the "/haarcascades" symlink
> problem in libface.

Well there is no issue reported here:

  http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/libface/report

but based on the above, maybe it's already fixed.
Comment 28 Marcel Wiesweg 2011-01-31 16:27:38 UTC
Dont you think the approx one thousand error messages about failed database queries look suspicious? ;-)

It seems that neither the main database nor the thumbnail database have been properly upgraded to the new schema - the error messages say that tables like TagProperties, ImageTagProperties or CustomIdentifiers do not exist.
The very strange point here is that the version number of the database is increased, which is usually only done in one transaction with the actual upgrade.
Comment 29 Adam Spiers 2011-01-31 16:40:11 UTC
(In reply to comment #28)
> Dont you think the approx one thousand error messages about failed database
> queries look suspicious? ;-)

Yes, I did wonder about those, but I also assumed that users would not be expected to carefully read STDOUT/STDERR (which normally vanishes into some hidden log file or /dev/null anyway).

> It seems that neither the main database nor the thumbnail database have been
> properly upgraded to the new schema - the error messages say that tables like
> TagProperties, ImageTagProperties or CustomIdentifiers do not exist.
> The very strange point here is that the version number of the database is
> increased, which is usually only done in one transaction with the actual
> upgrade.

Right, I guess that explains why the UI didn't warn me about an out of date schema, although one would have hoped that the transactional nature of the upgrade would not have allowed this :(  I will do a manual schema upgrade and see if it fixes the issue.  Thanks again!
Comment 30 Adam Spiers 2011-01-31 16:41:23 UTC
One more thought - if the face detection code requires certain fields to be in the database and doesn't find them, surely it should issue some kind of error in the UI rather than silently failing?  Shall I submit a separate bug for this?
Comment 31 Marcel Wiesweg 2011-01-31 16:49:31 UTC
There may be a loophole. It's all depending on the dbconfig.xml file. It seems if the wrong file is used - from the 1.x version - the schema update action is null, but the update apparently succeeds. I will add a few safety nets to avoid such a problem.

If you are a sure digikam uses the right dbconfig.xml - it's using /opt/digikam2/share/apps/digikam/database/dbconfig.xml for you atm - it should be sufficient that you only reduce the DBVersion flag in the settings table from 6 to 5, at the next restart the schema update will then be done. For the thumbnail db, from 2 to 1.
Comment 32 Adam Spiers 2011-01-31 17:45:35 UTC
(In reply to comment #31)
> There may be a loophole. It's all depending on the dbconfig.xml
> file. It seems if the wrong file is used - from the 1.x version -
> the schema update action is null, but the update apparently
> succeeds. I will add a few safety nets to avoid such a problem.

Great, thanks!

> If you are a sure digikam uses the right dbconfig.xml - it's using
> /opt/digikam2/share/apps/digikam/database/dbconfig.xml for you atm -
> it should be sufficient that you only reduce the DBVersion flag in
> the settings table from 6 to 5, at the next restart the schema
> update will then be done. For the thumbnail db, from 2 to 1.

Yep - that fixed it for me:

sqlite3 Pictures/digikam4.db 'update settings set value = 5 where keyword = "DBVersion"'
sqlite3 Pictures/thumbnails-digikam.db 'update settings set value = 1 where keyword = "DBThumbnailsVersion"'

Now faces are being detected but there are other problems:

(1) The photos are not being tagged with 'People/Unknown'
(2) When I do a "Recognize faces" scan, it completes immediately with no prompting - to find the detected faces, I have to manually scroll through the photos (mentioned in bug 262212)
(3) The "Add a Face Tag" icon and entry in the right-click context menu don't do anything (mentioned in bug 262212)

Let me know if I should submit new bugs for (1) and (3).
Comment 33 Marcel Wiesweg 2011-01-31 17:59:58 UTC
1) They are grouped under People/Unknown from the People left sidebar? No more is supposed to be done. We dont want to fully tag with a temporary tag like the Unknown tag which will usually be removed later
2) If recognition worked, the idea is that the photos are marked with the recognized name, grouped under the name in the People's sidebar, but still have the Ok/- buttons to confirm or reject.
3) I know, there's a bug report somewhere.
Comment 34 Adam Spiers 2011-01-31 19:13:04 UTC
(In reply to comment #33)
> 1) They are grouped under People/Unknown from the People left sidebar?

No, not for me.  That is the problem.

> 3) I know, there's a bug report somewhere.

Bug 262212?
Comment 35 Marcel Wiesweg 2011-01-31 19:32:43 UTC
SVN commit 1218150 by mwiesweg:

Ensure that digikam is using the correct version of the dbconfig.xml file.

From now on, if a wrong file is found, a big error message is displayed at startup.
An attempted schema update should fail.
You will need to "make install" after this change.

CCBUG:262074


 M  +4 -0      CMakeLists.txt  
 M  +4 -0      data/database/CMakeLists.txt  
 M  +6 -0      data/database/dbconfig.xml.cmake  
 M  +1 -0      digikam/CMakeLists.txt  
 M  +6 -0      libs/database/databaseaccess.cpp  
 M  +53 -15    libs/database/databaseconfigelement.cpp  
 M  +2 -0      libs/database/databaseconfigelement.h  
 M  +1 -0      libs/database/databasecorebackend.cpp  
 M  +9 -1      libs/database/schemaupdater.cpp  


WebSVN link: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=1218150
Comment 36 Marcel Wiesweg 2011-01-31 19:41:47 UTC
> > 1) They are grouped under People/Unknown from the People left sidebar?
> No, not for me.  That is the problem.

So the album views accessible from the left sidebar are empty for you, and you see recognized faces only framed in the preview view?
Hm, did you check that the ioslaves from 2.0 are properly in use, not those from 1.x?

> > 3) I know, there's a bug report somewhere.

262574
Comment 37 Adam Spiers 2011-01-31 20:29:05 UTC
(In reply to comment #36)
> > > 1) They are grouped under People/Unknown from the People left sidebar?
> > No, not for me.  That is the problem.
> 
> So the album views accessible from the left sidebar are empty for you

No, the album views are populated correctly.  It's the People > Unknown tag which always has zero photos, whether I view it from the Albums sidebar or the People sidebar.

> you see recognized faces only framed in the preview view?

Right.

> Hm, did you check that the ioslaves from 2.0 are properly in use, not those
> from 1.x?

It seems kdeinit4 munges argv[0] to things like "kdeinit4: kio_digikamtags [kdeinit] digikamtags" but based on lsof/pmap, it looks like it's using the 1.x ioslaves.  I wrote a shell wrapper which always does this before launching digikam:

export DIGIKAMDIR=/opt/digikam2
export PATH=$DIGIKAMDIR/bin:$PATH
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$DIGIKAMDIR/lib64:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH
export KDEDIRS=$DIGIKAMDIR:/usr
kbuildsycoca4

Am I missing something?
Comment 38 Adam Spiers 2011-01-31 20:31:05 UTC
But again it seems more defensive programming is required - if an out of date kioslave is in use and that's an issue for digikam 2.x, shouldn't digikam detect that and either refuse to run or show an error in the GUI?
Comment 39 Andrew Coles 2011-01-31 21:36:47 UTC
Adam - because you have digikam installed in a different place to KDE  itself, do:

export KDE_FORK_SLAVES=1

...before running digikam, or the IO slaves from /usr will always be loaded, rather than checking in $KDEDIRS..
Comment 40 Adam Spiers 2011-02-01 00:19:11 UTC
Ah, thanks!  Now I'm finally getting photos appearing under the People/Unknown tag in the People sidebar!  I'm now experiencing other issues, but they no longer  fall under the scope of this bug, so I've filed them as bug 265022 and bug 265025.