Version: (using Devel) OS: Linux Installed from: Compiled sources I have used Kubuntu 10.04 (Alpha 2) for a couple of hours now and I have stopped counting on how many times I have believed that one particular Window had focus. It wouldn't have been a problem if the difference between a border with focus and without focus had been greater. There's not much difference you can see except the text (and the buttons) on the border fading out while unfocused, I think this is a too small difference and that the border theme should be changed.
Do you have compositing enabled?
Also, can you have a look at System Settings | Appearance | Windows and play around with the settings? It would be very useful to know what works for you (it's a matter of eyesight, screen used and also personal taste). The wallpaper you're using would also be of interest, since for example the blue shadows aren't very visible on blue backgrounds.
Desktop effects doesn't matter, it's the same whether it's on or off. I have also tried with a couple of backgrounds with different colors (greenish, blueish, whitish, blackish usw ;)). I noticed the blue glow around the window before when compositing was on but I can't really say that it improved anything really (and it's only with compositing on). The contrast between the gray color when window is active and the one when the window is not active is way too low. If you select "Outline active window title" under "Fine Tuning" it makes all the difference. The problem is that it's too much with that setting, but at least people won't have any difficulty knowing whether a window is active or not.
Tomas, are you sure that you are using the default theme and settings? Can you post a screenshot?
Created attachment 40011 [details] Screenshot
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=223273 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169319 I have a terrible feeling that the group that does the otherwise terrific KDE 4 design suffers from above-average eyesight and that is killing usability. A minimum assessibility standard should be established for the default theme, even if accessibility themes are available.
So if I understand right: default configuration is not enough, outline window title (which was designed especially to address this issue) is too much. Right ? I hope people realize that it is pretty hard to get everyone's "just-right" taste. Is it not ? You can: - change the color of the 'active' window in color settings so that it is less aggressive; - switch to another decoration (and all the decorations as far as I know, do something similar to, usually *more* than the outline window title, as was ozone doing); If none of the above still works, then please post mockups. We've been struggling with this issue for years, had numerous ideas (which never made everyone happy, naturally), and very little mockups from the outside world ... Now if the argument is: the default should be "outline window title" on, that will not happen. There have been a number of positive reviews of the oxygen window decoration as it is now, possibly all by "more than average eyesight people, all over the web. So at least for some, the current setting is "just right".
on comment #7, notably, to illustrate that a bunch of people _are_ happy with the current decoration, nitrogen deco (which is a clone of what oxygen-kde4.4 currently is), is one of the highest ranked download (all categories) on www.kde-look.org, with 95% of voters being happy with it. for whatever it means (I know you can argue that kde is not representative, but what is ?)
Here is a screenshot that shows an active and inactive windows, such that it is easy to identify the active window: http://hpoussineau.free.fr/qemu/arc20081202-nt350-4.png This bug specifically mentions window borders. Placing a bright border around the active window makes it much easier to identify.
On 01/18/2010 01:18 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=223273 > > > > > > --- Comment #9 from Dotan Cohen<kde-51 dotancohen com> 2010-01-18 21:17:25 --- > Here is a screenshot that shows an active and inactive windows, such that it is > easy to identify the active window: > http://hpoussineau.free.fr/qemu/arc20081202-nt350-4.png > > This bug specifically mentions window borders. Placing a bright border around > the active window makes it much easier to identify. > mmm But isn't that what "outline window title" does ? http://imagebin.ca/view/9IAlZAn.html
Created attachment 40017 [details] outline active window title
Created attachment 40018 [details] Screenshot of windows with borders In this screenshot of windows with borders, the active window is easy to identify. Contrast with previous screenshot which shows the default config
> But isn't that what "outline window > title" does ? So make that the default and be done with it!
At comment #13: No. See comment #7 and comment #8.
I don't know if we are talking the same language here. The Oxygen theme is a master piece (at least I think so) from an artistic view, but that is not what I'm questioning. The question here is whether something can be done to fix the usabillity problem, which some people here believes exist. For now I guess that I'll have to stick whith "outline window title", it's better then nothing. 2010/1/18 Hugo Pereira Da Costa <hugo.pereira@free.fr> > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=223273 > > > > > > --- Comment #8 from Hugo Pereira Da Costa <hugo pereira free fr> > 2010-01-18 20:47:05 --- > on comment #7, notably, to illustrate that a bunch of people _are_ happy > with > the current decoration, nitrogen deco (which is a clone of what > oxygen-kde4.4 > currently is), is one of the highest ranked download (all categories) on > www.kde-look.org, with 95% of voters being happy with it. > for whatever it means (I know you can argue that kde is not representative, > but > what is ?) > > -- > Configure bugmail: https://bugs.kde.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email > ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- > You reported the bug. >
Hello Tomas, What I would like to know is, what is wrong with the outline mode, that does not fits your need, apart from the fact that it is not the default. Define "too much", in comment #3. Note: as an additional 'mild' active window effect, you can - disable outline - enable 'draw separator'. The separator being drawn only for active window, will also help, although again, it might be "too little" this time. Do you, or do you not, see my point of getting things "just right" for everyone ?
Nothing is wrong with the outline mode, it's just that it (and "draw separator") visually "breaks" the Oxygen theme. That's not what I want. If I'm in minority with the belief that there's a usabillity problem with the theme (and the default settings, which many people will use I believe) then fine. I'm only worried for the sake of the users, and I wanted to raise this question. I love the Oxygen theme, I just believe that there's this usability problem as I have described earlier. I do agree on keeping it as it's for now, at least until (if) many others can confirm that there's a usability problem. I will however see if I can modify the Oxygen theme to fit my needs. Perhaps it can be useful to the KDE project, perhaps not. 2010/1/18 Hugo Pereira Da Costa <hugo.pereira@free.fr> > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=223273 > > > > > > --- Comment #16 from Hugo Pereira Da Costa <hugo pereira free fr> > 2010-01-18 21:53:35 --- > Hello Tomas, > What I would like to know is, what is wrong with the outline mode, that > does > not fits your need, apart from the fact that it is not the default. > Define "too much", in comment #3. > > Note: as an additional 'mild' active window effect, you can > - disable outline > - enable 'draw separator'. > The separator being drawn only for active window, will also help, although > again, it might be "too little" this time. > > Do you, or do you not, see my point of getting things "just right" for > everyone > ? > > -- > Configure bugmail: https://bugs.kde.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email > ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- > You reported the bug. >
On 01/18/2010 02:32 PM, Tomas Gustavsson wrote: > https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=223273 > > > > > > --- Comment #17 from Tomas Gustavsson<tomplast gmail com> 2010-01-18 22:32:24 --- > Nothing is wrong with the outline mode, it's just that it (and "draw > separator") visually "breaks" the Oxygen theme. That's not what I want. If > I'm in minority with the belief that there's a usabillity problem with the > theme (and the default settings, which many people will use I believe) then > fine. I'm only worried for the sake of the users, and I wanted to raise this > question. I love the Oxygen theme, I just believe that there's this > usability problem as I have described earlier. > > I do agree on keeping it as it's for now, at least until (if) many others > can confirm that there's a usability problem. I will however see if I can > modify the Oxygen theme to fit my needs. Perhaps it can be useful to the KDE > project, perhaps not. > Don't hesitate to post whatever idea you come with !