Bug 204545 - Battery Monitor plasmoid: Estimated Time Remaining
Summary: Battery Monitor plasmoid: Estimated Time Remaining
Status: RESOLVED INTENTIONAL
Alias: None
Product: plasma4
Classification: Plasma
Component: widget-battery (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Platform: Ubuntu Unspecified
: NOR wishlist
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Plasma Bugs List
URL:
Keywords:
: 205549 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2009-08-20 17:52 UTC by Dotan Cohen
Modified: 2013-02-10 13:40 UTC (History)
19 users (show)

See Also:
Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In:


Attachments

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.
Description Dotan Cohen 2009-08-20 17:52:07 UTC
Version:            (using KDE 4.3.0)
Installed from:    Ubuntu Packages

In KDE 3 the battery monitor tool had a very accurate Estimate Time Remaining feature. Please add this to the Battery Monitor plasmoid in KDE 4. Thanks.
Comment 1 marco 2009-08-20 21:11:55 UTC
Great Idea, knowing the "Estimate time" is clearly more useful than knowing a %

Hope it's donde for 4.3.1

Regards.
Comment 2 Thilo-Alexander Ginkel 2009-08-21 07:41:29 UTC
This feature was available in KDE 4.2, but disappeared in 4.3, so I'd consider this a bug rather than a wishlist item.
Comment 3 Thilo-Alexander Ginkel 2009-08-21 07:47:37 UTC
Just noticed that this is most likely the result of the following change, so the feature's disappearance is intentional:

http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/applets/battery/battery.cpp?revision=978089&view=markup
Comment 4 Dotan Cohen 2009-08-22 22:19:55 UTC
> This feature was available in KDE 4.2, but disappeared in 4.3, so
> I'd consider this a bug rather than a wishlist item.

In KDE, features missing from KDE 4 that were present in KDE 3 are wishlist, not bugs. Thre has been much discussion on this, and if you want convincing or feel the need to dispute it, please google the previous arguments on the subject.


> Just noticed that this is most likely the result of the following
> change, so the feature's disappearance is intentional:

I don't know if it is an intentional feature removal (unlikely) or a workaround (likely).
Comment 5 Thilo-Alexander Ginkel 2009-08-23 00:22:48 UTC
(In reply to comment #4)
> > This feature was available in KDE 4.2, but disappeared in 4.3, so
> > I'd consider this a bug rather than a wishlist item.
> 
> In KDE, features missing from KDE 4 that were present in KDE 3 are wishlist,
> not bugs. Thre has been much discussion on this, and if you want convincing or
> feel the need to dispute it, please google the previous arguments on the
> subject.

That's why I wrote KDE 4.2. ;-) Anyway the SVN log I referenced above documents how to re-enable the feature, so for me the issue is solved.
Comment 6 Dotan Cohen 2009-08-23 11:45:29 UTC
> That's why I wrote KDE 4.2.

Oops!


> Anyway the SVN log I referenced above documents
> how to re-enable the feature, so for me the issue is solved.

For coders. For us users there is no solution.
Comment 7 marco 2009-08-23 13:32:53 UTC
Check-box botton for enabling this?
Comment 8 Dotan Cohen 2009-08-23 14:55:37 UTC
> Check-box botton for enabling this?

Please!
Comment 9 H.H. 2010-01-06 17:01:34 UTC
I wish that, too.  an estimation algorithm can be relative precise if done right. I also don't see why the user whould be confused when the time estimated is wrong, because the tool tip clearly states "_estimated_ time left..".
Comment 10 simply_bugz 2010-01-23 06:35:51 UTC
I have been looking for this since I changed to kde and now i'm kde4.4 and still no sign of time estimation.

and I already expressed my frustration on the other thread.

<a href="https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182940#c23"> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=182940#c23>
Comment 11 H.H. 2010-01-23 10:46:59 UTC
You can edit a config file to re-enable this feature:

edit the file "~/.kde[4]/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc"

search for the string "plugin=battery"

for me it is in the section 
"[Containments][3][Applets][60][Configuration][Applets][126]"

the go to the corresponding configuration section, for me
[Containments][3][Applets][60][Configuration][Applets][126][Configuration]

and add the line:
showRemainingTime=true

then do "pkill plasma-desktop" and "plasma-desktop" from konsole/krunner

the time estimation for me really seems worse than the one from ms-windows, so perhaps it is possible to improve the backends.
Comment 12 esigra 2010-01-23 14:57:14 UTC
(In reply to comment #11)
> You can edit a config file to re-enable this feature:
> 
> edit the file "~/.kde[4]/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc"
> 
> search for the string "plugin=battery"
> 
> for me it is in the section 
> "[Containments][3][Applets][60][Configuration][Applets][126]"
> 
> the go to the corresponding configuration section, for me
> [Containments][3][Applets][60][Configuration][Applets][126][Configuration]
> 
> and add the line:
> showRemainingTime=true
> 
> then do "pkill plasma-desktop" and "plasma-desktop" from konsole/krunner
> 

This does not help on KDE 4.3.4. The configuration sections look like this:

[Containments][3][Applets][9]
geometry=4,840,57,57
immutability=1
plugin=battery
zvalue=6

[Containments][3][Applets][9][Configuration]
showBatteryString=true
showRemainingTime=true
Comment 13 Elias Probst 2010-01-26 22:52:09 UTC
Please read this blogpost:
http://vizzzion.org/blog/2009/11/battery-improvements-in-kde-plasma-4-4/
Comment 14 H.H. 2010-02-05 17:27:38 UTC
there is another reason, why the remaining time display is very usefull:

when power is plugged in, it shows the remaining recharging time for me(I think quite precise, because it not depends on usage).
Comment 15 simply_bugz 2010-04-21 08:16:47 UTC
Tha(In reply to comment #11)
> You can edit a config file to re-enable this feature:
> 
> edit the file "~/.kde[4]/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc"
> 
> search for the string "plugin=battery"
> 
> for me it is in the section 
> "[Containments][3][Applets][60][Configuration][Applets][126]"
> 
> the go to the corresponding configuration section, for me
> [Containments][3][Applets][60][Configuration][Applets][126][Configuration]
> 
> and add the line:
> showRemainingTime=true
> 
> then do "pkill plasma-desktop" and "plasma-desktop" from konsole/krunner
> 
> the time estimation for me really seems worse than the one from ms-windows, so
> perhaps it is possible to improve the backends.

Thank you very much for the option! 
The only extra thing I needed to add was section heading.

The result:
The time estimation is close (within a few minutes) to values from the script I coded in the mean time but that makes sense if it is using floating average.
I'll see how well it works in the long run, especially when I'm fighting for the last 10min :D.

Maybe there is an option to display time on MouseOver but that's a minor.


I must be lucky with my hardware. On my eee pc 901 I can read 
/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0A08:00/PNP0C0A:00/power_supply/BAT0/uevent 
and simply calculate time = 3600 * charge / current. Which is quite responsive (to CPU load and screen brightness changes for example) and is quite accurate.
Comment 16 Adam Porter 2010-05-11 19:19:31 UTC
Sadly, whoever's in charge over at Kubuntu is refusing to patch this feature back in.

The only rationale that I've seen for removing this feature is that it's not accurate.  However, that's not true.  The time remaining is provided by the hardware through ACPI.  It's very accurate on my laptop, within a range of 10 minutes.

Yes, if the power usage changes, the estimation may not be updated for 5-10 seconds.   So what?  If I start playing a DVD and then, halfway through the movie, I want to see if there's enough battery power to finish the movie, what good is a percentage going to do me?

Every other OS on the planet displays the time remaining, or has the option to do so.  KDE has always been about giving the user the power to choose.  It's bad enough that this feature was disabled by default, but removing the checkbox setting is unbelievable.  In the name of "simplicity"?!  It would only make three checkboxes!  I thought only GNOME intentionally neutered their UI.  Just when I thought KDE 4 was ready for primetime, now it looks like KDE 3.5 is still more USEFUL.

Please, let common sense prevail, and put this basic functionality back in KDE!
Comment 18 Adam Porter 2010-05-12 01:32:29 UTC
Thanks for sharing these links.

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 15:17, H.H. <cyberbeat@gmx.de> wrote:
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=204545
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Comment #17 from H.H. <cyberbeat gmx de>  2010-05-11 22:17:05 ---
> There are already some patched versions on kde-look:
>
> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/battery+plasmoid+with+remaining+time?content=120309
>
> and
>
> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Battery+Time+Remaining?content=123767
>
> --
> Configure bugmail: https://bugs.kde.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
> ------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
> You are on the CC list for the bug.
>
Comment 19 niburu1 2010-07-08 22:28:06 UTC
(In reply to comment #11)
> You can edit a config file to re-enable this feature:
> 
> edit the file "~/.kde[4]/share/config/plasma-desktop-appletsrc"
> 
> search for the string "plugin=battery"
> 
> for me it is in the section 
> "[Containments][3][Applets][60][Configuration][Applets][126]"
> 
> the go to the corresponding configuration section, for me
> [Containments][3][Applets][60][Configuration][Applets][126][Configuration]
> 
> and add the line:
> showRemainingTime=true
> 
> then do "pkill plasma-desktop" and "plasma-desktop" from konsole/krunner
> 
> the time estimation for me really seems worse than the one from ms-windows, so
> perhaps it is possible to improve the backends.

For some reason this half broke in my latest update to KDE 4.4.5. Now instead of showing the remaining time on mouseover, it shows the percentage again. However, it does show the remaining time if you click on the plasmoid to display more detailed information. I wonder why it doesn't show on mouseover anymore. Is there something else in the config file that determines what's shown on mouseover?
Comment 20 Lamarque V. Souza 2011-02-06 00:42:27 UTC
*** Bug 205549 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 21 Aldo "xoen" Giambelluca 2011-02-06 15:52:23 UTC
I hope you don't get me wrong but I think this bug is an usability problem, my battery has a huge capacity but for people is important to have an estimate of the remaing battery life.

I personally open a terminal and use acpi -V, but it's not a solution for everyone.

I know is a rude estimate but it give me *an idea of how many time I have*.

(I love your work and I thank you)
Comment 22 H.H. 2011-02-06 16:34:01 UTC
I am the author of this fork, and try stay in sync with the newest kde-4.x versions.

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/battery+plasmoid+with+remaining+time?content=120309

Please imagine a voting among kde users for this feature, in which is also made clear the disadvantages of the remaining-time-display-method (it may jump in dependency of cpu/screen-brightness/..). I guess (I am quite sure!) that nevertheless most user would LOVE an option to display the remaining time. (would it be possible to have such a voting?) it is only an option! no default!

I would really see the devs reconsidering about this. And for newbies and fear of getting bugreports about wrong remaining time..perhaps it would be possible to show a tooltip/question-mark behind the remaining time option, that would "warn" the user of this "very bad" choice ;-)
Comment 23 Dominic Lyons 2011-02-06 22:18:14 UTC
Maybe it would be the best to show *two* estimations:

* Estimation over a longer time period (for example 20-30 minutes): Estimation for a continuous workload

* Short time estimation (~30 seconds): For noncontinuous workloads or if the workload has changed (for example notebook was nearly idling around and then avideo encoding process is launched => long-term estimation would show a too optimistic value)

PowerTOP does something similar to that.
Comment 24 Dotan Cohen 2011-02-06 22:55:39 UTC
> Maybe it would be the best to show *two* estimations
>

No, that would only confuse people.
Comment 25 Lukas 2011-03-02 14:26:03 UTC
As of KDE SC 4.6, opensuse 11.4, the remaining time is already shown (and quite accurately). As far as I understand, decision to show or not remaining time is upon distribution. 

So isn't this bug supposed to be closed.
Comment 26 H.H. 2011-03-02 15:41:18 UTC
I think this bug is about the choice for this by the user, not the distribution.
Comment 27 Steve 2012-04-20 14:38:24 UTC
What is needed is an estimate of the time remaining given current usage, so the user can see how watching a movie or recompiling the kernel is affecting his remaining battery life. If the estimate fluctuates with different usage patterns, that is the desired behavior. A commuter wants to know if he has to change what he is doing for the battery to last until his train reaches his destination, for instance.

In my brief experience of 15 years, estimates of time remaining have only been way off when the battery was dying, but that is a symptom that should not be hidden from the user. I believe people have come to expect an estimate of time remaining when they use a laptop. I also believe it is common knowledge that your mileage may vary, but weathermen still predict the weather and traders still buy stock, even though they are not 100% sure what the future will bring. The user should at least have the option, and currently in KDE 4.6, adding showRemainingTime=true to plasma-desktop-appletsrc doesn't add the time to the battery icon.
Comment 28 David Edmundson 2012-06-07 15:36:01 UTC
This option exists.
Comment 29 H.H. 2012-06-07 16:19:19 UTC
@David Edmundson: are you sure, that a GUI-Option(!) does exist? For me not in kde-4.8.3
Comment 30 Thilo-Alexander Ginkel 2012-06-07 17:32:53 UTC
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 5:36 PM, David Edmundson
<kde@davidedmundson.co.uk> wrote:
> --- Comment #28 from David Edmundson <kde@davidedmundson.co.uk> ---
> This option exists.

Well, I can merge the two battery icons into one, but the estimated
time remaining only considers the time until the currently discharging
battery is empty.
Comment 31 David Edmundson 2012-06-07 17:51:02 UTC
2 battery remaining times is a different bug here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=253453 which is not closed.
Comment 32 Steve 2012-06-12 16:49:50 UTC
(In reply to comment #28)
> This option exists.

This option does not exist. There is no way I can find in KDE 4.8.3, short of patching the source code, to display the time remaining on the battery icon, so that it can be seen with a glance at the notification area. This bug needs to be reopened.
Comment 33 David Edmundson 2012-06-12 17:01:21 UTC
We were referring to 4.8.80 (KDE 4.9)
Comment 34 Steve 2012-06-13 05:17:54 UTC
(In reply to comment #33)
> We were referring to 4.8.80 (KDE 4.9)

I just tried KDE 4.9 beta from Project Neon, and the battery icon is much worse. There doesn't seem to be any option to show any information on the icon, either percent remaining or time remaining, just the icon with a few blocks showing charge state, which is a very coarse scale. You have to click on the icon to see any information. There is no more information at a glance, unless the option is hidden somewhere where I can't find it. I am becoming concerned about useful features that keep disappearing from successive releases of KDE. Should this bug be reopened to provide information on the icon, or should I open a new one?
Comment 35 David Edmundson 2012-06-13 07:46:39 UTC
Time remaining information is in the panel that pops up, please do open any other problems as new bug reports. Use a different bug for each bug/feature as otherwise it's a problem for us to keep track.
Comment 36 H.H. 2012-10-05 15:39:48 UTC
for your information: currently there exist 3 forks of battery plasmoid showing the remaining-time-option inc config-gui. alone that should give to think about adding the option in the original plasmoid gui again.
Comment 37 H.H. 2012-10-05 15:41:06 UTC
I forgot to say: the forks are all on kde-apps.org
Comment 38 Torsten Römer 2012-12-19 14:57:00 UTC
I am using KDE 4.9.3 and there is no estimated time information in the popup. It was there in the previous release of Kubuntu, I think it was KDE 4.8.x, and it worked pretty accurate, so it is a bit a shame that it is missing now.

A side note: When clicking on the battery icon, the popup is partially obscured by the tooltip, and it is necessary to move the mouse away or wait to get rid of it. A really small annoyance, but still spoiling the usability a bit.
Comment 39 tekstr1der 2013-02-10 05:07:15 UTC
Time-remaining informatin is still missing from the battery plasmoid in KDE 4.10. 

Why is this listed as resolved/fixed? Must yet another bug be raised for this same issue?

Also, it's not a wishlist item, but rather a regression. This function was working properly in previous releases.
Comment 40 David Edmundson 2013-02-10 13:18:52 UTC
You are correct. It was never fixed, and won't be due to a decision by someone in the Plasma team. I've updated the bug to be more accurate

Please use the "Enhanced Batter Plasmoid" available through "Get New Widgets". It's written by the original Plasma batter maintainer.
Comment 41 Torsten Römer 2013-02-10 13:40:26 UTC
Great, thanks for this hint! Nice to have the estimated remaining time back.