Version: (using KDE 4.2.4) Installed from: Ubuntu Packages When opening the Lancelot menu, one expects it to close when clicking outside the menu. It does not close under the two circumstances: 1) The user clicks on the panel 2) The user clicks on the Lancelot menu icon without moving the mouse off the icon first. In order to close the menu from the icon, the mouse cursor must be moved off the icon, then placed back over the icon.
1) because the panel can not gain focus. It is a panel issue. 2) Strange, it works for me when I don't move the mouse from icon, and not if I do :) I'll see what's wrong with that.
Ivan, I see if I insist and click on the icon multiple times, Lancelot does in fact go away. But not ever the first time!
It is semi-intentional (if you click to open the menu, while it is set to hover-open, it should still open itself and not only blink). I'll make that less-invasive.
SVN commit 980903 by ivan: BUG:196140 M +32 -27 LancelotApplet.cpp WebSVN link: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=980903
Thanks. I am testing the 4.3 betas now, do you know in which future version I will be able to triage this?
I think that the next release is RC1, or you can manually compile. BTW, thank you for reporting, I'm not sure, but I think you authored most present and past reports :)
I hope that you don't find me a pain. I've got about 20 users and at least as many more that I help via email. I'm big on the "little details" :)
No, far from it. The only thing that worries me is that I will /scare/ you away with some of the responses :) Most of the time, things that are not-as-they-should-be are the things that I just don't see. (It's like proofreading your own text - you are bound to miss some errors) Every useful bug report / feature request / polish request / whatever ... is more than welcome.
Ivan, the Lancelot menu still does not close when clicking on the panel. I do not think that this is a panel issue anymore as other plasmoids (for instance, the Quick Access plasmoid) do in fact close when clicking on the panel. Please revisit this issue. Thanks.
I've just been testing this - folderview does close, lancelot and kickoff doesn't - I'll check it out. Cheers!
Completely forgot about this one - it seems that the default behaviour is not to close - only folderview does it. I want lancelot to behave like a generic plasma popup - that is, if popups start closing, then lancelot will. BTW, what is a Quick Access plasmoid?
The Quick Access plasmoid lets one open a file or folder in the file system. It functions as a mini file browser. It's icon looks like a folder with a five-pointed star.
Do you reproduce with kde 4.4.4 or 4.5 beta ?
I can reproduce with KDE 4.4.2, the latest that I can install at the moment.
I'm considering doing this although it will not be consistent with some of the other applets just to close this report :)
Of course it also doesnt work in 4.5 beta 1, but that makes it consistent with other plasmoids: digital clock, battery, network manager, weather plasmoid and translator all do not close on panel click, while it certainly would be the correct behavior to close on panelclick, I believe consistency is more important, thus either a new bug should be opened complaining about all the other plasmoids or this bug should not be fixed as it breaks consistency.
*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 241069 ***
Yet there are other plasmoids which do close properly, such as the Quick Launch plasmoids. Aaron Siego, the lead Plasma developer, has stated that prefers such "groups" of bugs be filed separately, therefore please file separate bugs on each affected plasmoid Jakob. Thanks.
It is difficult to say that only a few applets behave /properly/ - if it is not a general rule (and even a minority in this case), then, those are the applets that don't behave properly. Anyhow, the main reason we need bypasses and hacks to do this is that the panel is not focusable. When it becomes, these (and a couple of other) bugs will go away.
*** Bug 241069 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
To define the "proper" behaviour, one need only look at established software (KDE 3, Windows, Gnome) and all the dupes. Therefore, one can establish that closing on panel click is the proper behaviour, and most Plasmoids behave improperly.
KDE 3, Windows, Gnome... had/have icons on the desktop. Proper behaviour is not defined by 'the way most ppl do it'...
(In reply to comment #19) > It is difficult to say that only a few applets behave /properly/ - if it is not > a general rule (and even a minority in this case), then, those are the applets > that don't behave properly. > > Anyhow, the main reason we need bypasses and hacks to do this is that the panel > is not focusable. When it becomes, these (and a couple of other) bugs will go > away. If that means a solution can only be found with rather hackish, dirty code I'd say panelclicking shouldnt close these popups, I believe clean code and a consistent behavior is better than having this feature and propably a few bugs and minor troubles coming from these workarounds. This would mean opening bug reports for plasmoids that *do* close on panelclick.
> Proper behaviour is not defined by 'the way most > ppl do it'... Nor by the way that most apps do it. I would expect "proper behaviour" to be the intuitive, expected behaviour that a reasonable computer user would expect. Lancelot closes when one clicks on a window, the desktop, the clock applet, or most other things, _other_ than the panel itself. What is so special that clicking the panel should be different than clicking anything else? What is the use case for leaving Lancelot open? >If that means a solution can only be found with rather hackish, dirty code I'd >say panelclicking shouldnt close these popups, I believe clean code and a >consistent behavior is better than having this feature and propably a few bugs >and minor troubles coming from these workarounds. If a solution can only be found with hackish, dirty code then there is a fundamental problem with Plasma. I will remind the audience that Plasma was created because Kicker (well, KDE 3 in general) was to patchy and contained too many "hacks" to work around limitations in the initial implementation. I agree that hackish, dirty code is undesirable, but how hackish does the solution have to be? Should the user experience be degraded to save four lines of "ugly" code that could be properly commented so that it will be comprehendable despite it's hackish nature? For that matter, what needs to change in plasma to allow Lancelot to close on panel click without being hacky?
> Lancelot closes when one clicks on a window, the desktop, the clock > applet, or most other things, _other_ than the panel itself. Lancelot closes when it loses the focus. When you click the clock, it opens the popup, when you click a window, it focuses the window, ... so, in essence, Lancelot (and other applets) gets out of the way when something else is activated. > What is the use case for leaving Lancelot open? If you go that way, what is the use case for clicking a panel at all?
> Lancelot closes when it loses the focus. The user only knows that he clicks on most non-Lancelot things and Lancelot closes. That the panel doesn't take focus is not something the user even thinks about. > If you go that way, what is the use case for clicking > a panel at all? To close Lancelot. Seriously.
> To close Lancelot. Seriously. This is not a use-case, seriously. If you have a logical cause-and-effect connecting clicking a panel, and closing anything (except 'it is what other DEs do'), please do tell. And the 'closing' use-case is covered by clicking L button. (which has a c-a-e behind it) ==== Don't get me wrong, I'm not against this idea - if it is decided to be a default behaviour, Lancelot will follow. And that is the stance I took from the beginning, so this argument is rather pointless...
> This is not a use-case, seriously. Do an experiment: have a user open Lancelot, then have her move the mouse to the center of the screen, then ask her to close Lancelot. Actually, I just tested this on the wife, and she knew to close Lancelot from the icon. Then she bothered to tell me that she understood exactly what it is that I'm testing! It's past 21:00 on our holy day now, so I'll not bother the neighbours with this experiment, but do try asking people yourself. > Don't get me wrong, I'm not against this idea - if it is decided to be a > default behaviour, Lancelot will follow. And that is the stance I took from the > beginning, so this argument is rather pointless... Arguing? Discussing! I don't expect you to make every little change that Dotan comes up with, without making sure that it's a good idea first.
Dotan, I have already told you how much I appreciate your help and efforts to make KDE greater, but that doesn't change the fact that this is is becoming a rather unproductive thread. This has to be decided on plasma level, and until it is, this topic can't get more productive. p.s. One of the definitions of an 'argument' (Merriam-Webster dict) - a coherent series of statements leading from a premise to a conclusion > Actually, I just tested this on the wife, > and she knew to close Lancelot from > the icon. Then she bothered to tell > me that she understood exactly what it is Again, this depends on the experience. As I said, if plasma decides to follow other DEs, so will Lancelot. ** I have nothing against the idea ** I just consider some of your arguments to be false, nothing more, nothing less...
Agreed, this isn't very productive,... Thanks!
Closing for lack of feedback. Please feel free to reopen this report if you can still reproduce this with KDE 4.8.3 or later.
Clicking on the panel still does not close Lancelot. I will gather some neighbours to test if that is the expected behaviour or not, as per comment #28. I don't have any supported users to use as lab rats anymore!
And this one is the same as it was before. Until the rest of plasma gets this behaviour, Lancelot will behave as it does now.
I manged to get four neighbours to test Lancelot. Note that I configured the screen to have a panel at the bottom and the Lancelot icon was at the lower left, using the KDE Gear icon. The only running application was Firefox, opened to the Google homepage. 1) Older Romanian woman. I asked her to open the main menu, she asked what I meant. I explained that I want her to show me a list of the programs on the computer. She clicked the Gear icon as if it were obvious to her. I asked her to close the menu now. Her mouse pointer went to the upper right of Lancelot and she clicked there. She did not seem to notice that she focused the search field and started clicking and double clicking it. Then I think that she missed, she clicked just outside Lancelot and Lancelot closed. She smiled that Lancelot closed but I don't think that she knows how she closed it! 2) Her husband. He did not see his wife's test. He also opened Lancelot as if he knew that the icon in the bottom left corner would be the main menu. To close it he clicked the panel. This didn't work so he tried again on the system tray. He managed to click the RSIBreak system tray icon, and Lancelot closed as the RSIBreak dialogue opened. He then pressed the RSIBreak "Reset" button to close that dialogue, without even reading it! 3) A 12 year old boy. He first minimized Firefox then clicked the gear. To close Lancelot, he clicked the panel about 10 times, then clicked the icon. 4) A middle-aged woman. She pondered before clicking the Gear icon, then double clicked it as soon as the menu opened, closing it again. She then either double- or triple-clicked the icon to reopen the main menu, and started clicking the panel. When that didn't work she clicked on the Google logo.