Bug 192071 - Separate folders from files in Dolphin Icon view
Summary: Separate folders from files in Dolphin Icon view
Status: RESOLVED WORKSFORME
Alias: None
Product: dolphin
Classification: Applications
Component: view-engine: icons mode (show other bugs)
Version: 16.12.2
Platform: Ubuntu Unspecified
: NOR wishlist
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Dolphin Bug Assignee
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2009-05-08 20:46 UTC by Dotan Cohen
Modified: 2017-09-04 04:47 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:
Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In:
Sentry Crash Report:


Attachments
dolphin grouping example (43.24 KB, image/jpeg)
2009-05-10 00:53 UTC, FiNeX
Details
Screenshot of KDE 3 file chooser dialogue (42.53 KB, image/png)
2009-05-11 08:44 UTC, Dotan Cohen
Details
No confusion here! (99.08 KB, image/png)
2009-05-11 08:55 UTC, Dotan Cohen
Details
This is confusion! (125.72 KB, image/png)
2009-05-11 09:00 UTC, Dotan Cohen
Details

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Description Dotan Cohen 2009-05-08 20:46:19 UTC
Version:            (using KDE 4.2.2)
Installed from:    Ubuntu Packages

It would be very nice if Dolphin could separate folders from files in Icon View, in a fashion similar to the Show In Groups feature. I generally know where in my hierarchy the file that I need lies, so for the first few clicks I am only interested in what folders are available, and separating them from the files would be great.
Comment 1 FiNeX 2009-05-09 13:41:30 UTC
Could this wish be extended to add "grouping" feature to the list view?
Comment 2 Dotan Cohen 2009-05-09 16:54:39 UTC
I would consider that a different request, Finex. I very much dislike grouping, however, I would like to have the folders shown separately from the files.
Comment 3 FiNeX 2009-05-09 18:19:49 UTC
Ok Dotan :-)
Comment 4 Peter Penz 2009-05-09 21:22:12 UTC
Sorry, I don't understand this wish. Currently in the icon view the folders are per default always shown before the files. What do you mean by "separated"? Adding a line between the folders and the files?
Comment 5 Dotan Cohen 2009-05-09 21:51:05 UTC
> Adding a line between the folders and the files?

Yes, like the lines that the"grouping" feature uses. Just having the folders before the files is not helpful, having them physically separated would be great.

Thanks, Peter!
Comment 6 FiNeX 2009-05-10 00:52:31 UTC
If a "separation" could be implemented, I'll prefer to have a grouping feature on the list view, not have only a separation like Dotan suggested. Having the grouping feature on icon view and this separation on list view is not a good idea: there is the risk of adding confusion on the UI.

Anyway dolphin can already be configured to have something similar (without the "details"). Look at the screenshot :-)
Comment 7 FiNeX 2009-05-10 00:53:01 UTC
Created attachment 33502 [details]
dolphin grouping example
Comment 8 Dotan Cohen 2009-05-11 08:42:40 UTC
I see that you have sorted by type then grouped. Although that does separate the folders from the files, it has these drawbacks:

1) The files are sorted by type! I need sort by date, usually, and sometimes by name. Never by type.

2) The files are spread out over too much vertical space and not enough horizontal. That means a scrollbar (a long scrollbar at that) then otherwise none would be necessary.
Comment 9 Dotan Cohen 2009-05-11 08:44:25 UTC
Created attachment 33531 [details]
Screenshot of KDE 3 file chooser dialogue

It appears that this feature was available in KDE 3, at least in the File Chooser dialogues. See attached screenshot.
Comment 10 Dotan Cohen 2009-05-11 08:55:07 UTC
Created attachment 33532 [details]
No confusion here!

> Having the grouping feature on icon view and
> this separation on list view is not a good
> idea: there is the risk of adding confusion
> on the UI.

Most certainly not! Look at the screenshot, what is confusing? I should post a screenshot of my documents folder as it currently show up in Dolphin, you will see what confusing is (which is why I opened this feature request in the first place).
Comment 11 Dotan Cohen 2009-05-11 09:00:30 UTC
Created attachment 33533 [details]
This is confusion!

This is my "documents" folder. Can you tell what is a folder and what is a file? Custom icons for folders are important as one can identify a visual image much faster than reading text (which is why we use icons in toolbars, and why racecars use analogue guages). However, keeping them in the same visual space as the files is absurd as they serve two different purposes: one is for navigation (folders) and the other is for data (text).
Comment 12 Peter Penz 2009-05-11 09:18:28 UTC
Hm, after seeing the screenshot from comment #11 I understand the need for your request. However in my opinion the root cause of the whole issue is that you applied icons to folders that that don't look like folders anymore. So a "real" fix for this issue would be having folder icons with a custom icon overlay IMO. There are already folder icons available for this usecase, but probably too less for your environment. Maybe we could introduce a generic mechanism to provide custom overlay icons for folders?
Comment 13 FiNeX 2009-05-11 10:23:03 UTC
(In reply to comment #10)
> Created an attachment (id=33532) [details]
> No confusion here!
> 
> > Having the grouping feature on icon view and
> > this separation on list view is not a good
> > idea: there is the risk of adding confusion
> > on the UI.
> 
> Most certainly not! Look at the screenshot, what is confusing? I should post a
> screenshot of my documents folder as it currently show up in Dolphin, you will
> see what confusing is (which is why I opened this feature request in the first
> place).

with "confusion" on the UI, I mean that the UI itself, not the information presented to the user: adding this "line" means another option to the software, moreover an option very similar to an existing one (group). 

You know that more options equals more flexibility and, unfortunatly, more complexity. It is necessary to keep a balanced level between those both.

I've the same opinion of Peter: probably you should use icon folders which visually helps you. An interesting solution, otherwise, could be implemeting this: bug #37300.
Comment 14 Dotan Cohen 2009-05-12 16:25:21 UTC
> However in my opinion the root cause of the whole issue is
> that you applied icons to folders that that don't look like
> folders anymore. However in my opinion the root cause of the
> whole issue is that you applied icons to folders that that
> don't look like folders anymore.

The problem is present even when not using custom folder icons, because different file types have different icons. Yes I know that in Linux everything (including directories) is a file, but for humans to operate a file browser just calling a folder a special type of file (by giving it it's own icon) is not a solution, it is barely even a hack.

The problem is that folders are used for navigation, and files are used for data. They should _not_ be in the same place. No UI designer would think of putting the Back, Forward, and other toolbar icons in the same physical space as the file icons, so why are the folders there?
Comment 15 Jeroen van Meeuwen (Kolab Systems) 2012-08-24 16:19:51 UTC
Resetting assignee to default as per bug #305719
Comment 16 Christoph Feck 2013-10-13 10:39:51 UTC
Dotan, can you check if the "Folders First" option in the "Sort by" menu is sufficient? This way, if you sort e.g. by date, you still get folders separated from files. There is no visual separator (line etc.), but what is depicted in comment #11 will not happen.
Comment 17 Dotan Cohen 2013-10-18 11:14:23 UTC
Thank you Christoph. Actualy, the "Folders First" option is already set in that screenshot!

The issue is to visually determine what are directories and what are files without having to remember all the names.
Comment 18 Nate Graham 2017-09-04 04:47:08 UTC
As Christoph mentioned 4 years ago, this works as expected. There is a "Show folders first" that accomplishes this. They may not be separated with a separator line, but they *are* first. If your folders don't look like folders, that's an issue with your icon theme or your own decisions, if you were the one who gave them ambiguous icons.