Bug 152110 - KDE logoff: four clicks is too many
Summary: KDE logoff: four clicks is too many
Alias: None
Product: plasma4
Classification: Plasma
Component: widget-kickoff (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Platform: Debian testing Linux
: NOR normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Plasma Bugs List
: 152486 152895 153543 153814 158414 159215 165479 165680 170831 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Reported: 2007-11-10 14:53 UTC by Gilson
Modified: 2010-05-03 21:45 UTC (History)
22 users (show)

See Also:
Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In:


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Description Gilson 2007-11-10 14:53:41 UTC
Version:            (using KDE KDE 3.95.0)
Installed from:    Debian testing/unstable Packages
OS:                Linux

Don`t shutdown or any other option like reboot, lock or restart pressing appropriate button on kickoff menu.Only using the right button of mouse in the desktop area or using a halt command on konsole.
Comment 1 Aaron J. Seigo 2007-11-10 19:00:52 UTC
i'm sorry, i don't quite understand: are you saying that the lock / logout items in the kickoff menu Leave tab do not work for you?
Comment 2 Oswald Buddenhagen 2007-11-10 20:11:43 UTC
that's what he's saying. while most of it works for me meanwhile, the "switch user" item still pops up the shutdown dialog (without widgets to switch the user, obviously).
and i must admit it's beyond my why the shutdown dialog needs three entry points in one menu ...
Comment 3 Aaron J. Seigo 2007-11-10 20:23:59 UTC
ok, so now that i actually understand the issue at hand ...

... those items are supposed to be shortcuts to the actions (so you don't click, go through a dialog, click, get ANOTHER dialog, click.. action happens).

that apparently isn't implemented yet, and i think that is a Known Issue at the time of importing it into kdebase.
Comment 4 Francesco Battaglini 2007-11-11 15:48:58 UTC
The actual version of kde is 3.95.2. Maybe this problem was fixed after 3.95.0 because my shortcuts work well.
Comment 5 Gilson 2007-11-11 15:59:31 UTC
Waiting for the RC1.
Comment 6 Pino Toscano 2007-11-25 21:26:02 UTC
*** Bug 152895 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 7 Pino Toscano 2007-12-05 11:10:40 UTC
Re-unconfirm (owner changing confirmed the bug).
Comment 8 Jason Stubbs 2007-12-08 05:00:26 UTC
*** Bug 153543 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 9 Tobias Powalowski 2007-12-08 09:27:58 UTC
why is this bug unconfirmed?

looking at how many duplicates exist on different distros i would say it is confirmed ;)
Comment 10 Pino Toscano 2007-12-11 01:29:26 UTC
*** Bug 153814 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 11 Aaron J. Seigo 2007-12-11 02:02:54 UTC
this is not a problem in kickoff, actually. this is a problem in ksmserver. in brief:

when a specific shutdown option is specified (e.g. not ShutdownTypeNone), the ksmserver should not show the regular dialog but instead a simple confirmation dialog that the user can click yes or no on.

the whole point of providing these options in kickoff is to make it quick to get to the common options.
Comment 12 Aaron J. Seigo 2007-12-11 02:03:52 UTC
*** Bug 152486 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 13 Davide Ferrari 2008-02-05 13:07:36 UTC
I was going to fill a bug for this very problem, but found this already existing bug, so...
If you want may opinion, it shouldn't even display the confirm dialog. I mean, I've already done 3 steps to shutdown/restart/logout, so why add a 4th?

1st step: bring up kickoff
2nd step: select the "leave" tab
3rd step: click the wanted option

Old KDE3 method
1st step: bring up kmenu
2nd step: click the logout button
3rd step: click the wanted option
Comment 14 Davide Ferrari 2008-02-05 13:53:02 UTC
A couple of notes: this bug is still present in KDE 4.0.0 and recent trunk snapshots.

I think this should be a trivial patch... although I'm no C++ developer maybe with some kind help I could provide the patch myself
Comment 15 Luciano Leveroni 2008-02-20 04:40:34 UTC
I agree with #13 comment, however, that would make the new logout screen useless which i think its beautiful :)
Maybe you should consider getting rid of the "Leave" menu and provide a single click button somewhere which brings up the new logout screen.
Both solution would be better than the current (using KDE 4.0.1) which is kind of confusing.
Comment 16 Vincenzo Di Massa 2008-02-24 00:51:56 UTC
I was reasoning about what comment #13 says... I found this bug...
I and had an idea about an ui change: we could have the logout screen to show up a timer (5 seconds for example) before it executes the selected action.

This would allow 3 click poweroff and give users who mistakenly chose the wrong option in kickoff the chance to stop the shutdown (just click everywhere) or to perform a different action (just click change user for example).

Just my 5 cents.
Comment 17 Dario Panico 2008-02-24 19:30:21 UTC
In my opinion (my modest opinion) I think that logout should work this way:
-press RMB, open kicker menu or any other way you choose to logout
-select what do you want to do: logout, shoutdown, reboot, hibernate, suspend, ...
-it should appear a dialog with a timer (it wait e.g. 30 sec and then perform the operation selected previously) with two options: confirm and cancel

I think that the timer is similar to what is used by gnome but the confirm or cancel is something to simply let you choose, without being redundant.
Comment 18 Maciej Pilichowski 2008-02-24 20:54:58 UTC
Dario, I choose logout and then I have to confirm to logout? What danger is in logging out?

Timeout is a good option for (and only) options that leads to such operation, that restoring it is a lengthy process -- restart, shutdown for example.

On the other hand I cannot see what is wrong with KDE3 (sic!) shutdown dialog. This + timeout mentioned above would work just fine. What else do we really need?
Comment 19 Dario Panico 2008-02-24 21:30:41 UTC
#18 watch at #11 (Aaron Seigo), that's how it is supposed to work.
I think that logout-login is an operation i would avoid to repeat and, if every os and de use to provide a confirmation dialog they shouldn't be wrong :)
Comment 20 Maciej Pilichowski 2008-02-24 22:44:40 UTC
Sorry, I misread you and missed that is about directly choosing an option. 
Comment 21 Aaron J. Seigo 2008-02-25 21:59:23 UTC
*** Bug 158414 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 22 Dario Panico 2008-03-06 17:44:16 UTC
atm the timer with only continue and cancel is successfully used for logout option.
Here's a screenshot: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/files/images/logout5.png

I hope that this way will be used even with Shutdown and Reboot (cause it is not, atm)
Comment 23 Maciej Pilichowski 2008-03-06 18:34:58 UTC
Nice! Minor thing though, it would be good to establish one UI for button+icon, either it is
icon+text (*)

There is a dialog in the background, which uses opposite scheme than the logout dialog :-)

(*) this one is valid one, AFAIK
Comment 24 Aaron J. Seigo 2008-03-06 18:54:04 UTC
*** Bug has been marked as fixed ***.
Comment 25 Dario Panico 2008-03-11 15:22:15 UTC
sorry but i personally think that this is not fixed since the redundancy is still there.
now there's the timer, which is a big improvement.

Pain points: if i choose one option, the possibility to choose again make it more probable to select a wrong option (different than what selected before); redundancy hurts my sensibilty and is always a bad thing (that's what i was taught).
Comment 26 Markus Haag 2008-03-11 20:48:24 UTC
what do the usability guys say about this? It would be the same logic if I go into Kwrite - Click the Save Button and then there is a popup which asks me if I would like to open a file, save a file or discard the changes. As mentioned above there is one step to many involved.
Comment 27 Maciej Pilichowski 2008-03-11 21:41:18 UTC
Markus, what harm is done when you save? Unwanted changes are saved? True (good point to post a wish for a revert feature :-) ).

Now, you open KDE menu, you choose shutdown, oh, wait, you meant just logout. But don't worry -- it takes only closing all your apps, maybe some data loss, then shutdown, then rebooting your machine, then logging in. Simply? Not at all. That's why it is good to have such protection -- shutdown/restart are too lengthy processes to just rely on one click.
Comment 28 Markus Haag 2008-03-11 21:44:53 UTC
Maciej, I don't understand the reason behind the move to show twice the same actions. If you have only one button in the kickoff menu and in the second window you are then presented with the options then it would be fine or a popup with the message: do you really want to reboot your computer,etc.
Comment 29 Maciej Pilichowski 2008-03-12 09:19:58 UTC
I think I didn't understand your last comment.
a) you can call the "logout" dialog and then choose the action, no confirmation there
b) or you can choose directly from the menu, logout, shutdown -- and here you get confirmation

Actually I hope this is how KDE4 works now :-) Anyway, I am used to (a) method and I never (even once) used the (b) way.
Comment 30 Dario Panico 2008-03-12 14:54:51 UTC
#27 you wanted to logout and clicked on 'Shutdown', don't worry, press 'Cancel' and then select the right option. That is what it is supposed to work, so what's the problem?
#29 how to logout:
-RMB on desktop <b>or</b> LMB on kickoff menu, hover 'Leave'
-Choose between 'Logout', 'Shutdown', 'Reboot' (e.g. logout)
-In the dialog raised, <b>select another time 'Logout'</b> (or wait for the timer, actually 60 sec), this isn't a confirmation, this is a repeated choice!
Don't you think there are too many steps with too many unnecessary confirmations?
Comment 31 Maciej Pilichowski 2008-03-12 15:12:15 UTC
Dario, ad.27 -- you missing the context. I exactly described how it would look like without it.

Now, ad.29 -- about "how to logout" and later countdown/confirmation
1) RMB on desktop -- I think the confirmation is needed
2) Kickoff menu -- see below 
3) direct call (ctrl+alt+del) -- I think the confirmation is not needed, the icons and text are huge, it is hard to miss the desired option

So if this countdown confirmation is applied currently for (2) or (3) I think it is an overkill. It would be much better to improve spacing between buttons and that's it (in KDE3 the logout dialog -- ctrl+alt+del -- is very clear and it is difficult to make a mistake). 

So, yes, I agree with you -- there are too many steps, except for context menu -- the options are placed tightly, so there confirmation is a nice move.

Btw. I hope the countdown timer is configurable.
Comment 32 Will Stephenson 2008-03-13 13:31:50 UTC
/me casts Polymorphic Animate Dead.  

The fix needed in ksmserver is under discussion on panel-devel at the moment, and the discussion here after the original problem was fixed is useful
Comment 33 Will Stephenson 2008-03-13 13:32:11 UTC
*** Bug 159215 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 34 Andreas Hermann Braml 2008-03-26 23:36:11 UTC
In the 'Advanced --> Session Manager' panel of systemsettings, the first two options are 'Confirm logout' and 'Offer shutdown options'. When I deselect only the first option, I can shutdown via Kickoff without confirmation (what I expected). When I deselect the second option, too, shutdown via Kickoff doesn't work anymore, i.e. when I left-click the shutdown button, Kickoff disappears, then nothing, no confirmation dialog, no shutdown. (With 4.0.2 on Kubuntu Hardy). Is this a Kubuntu bug?
BTW: are the options in systemsettings meant to only refer to the Kickoff-way, or also to 'RMB on the desktop --> Logout'?
Comment 35 Mary Ellen Foster 2008-03-31 10:17:34 UTC
If the intention is to have a confirmation of things like shutdown, why not use an confirmation dialogue (e.g., "Are you sure you want to shutdown?") rather than showing THE SAME THREE OPTIONS again with no indication that it's intended as a confirmation?
Comment 36 Davide Ferrari 2008-03-31 11:07:49 UTC
What Mary is saying in comment #35 I think is what everyone of us is asking with this bug. Please reimplement the KDE3-Kickoff logout system! It was almost perfect. 
Probably we have to wait downstream (OpenSuse) to reimplement it and put it upstream once again.
Comment 37 alan 2008-04-21 12:44:49 UTC
I am not sure if this bug is fixed or not - on 4.0.3 on kubuntu it isn't.

Some comments about logout.  When I select it, and then say I want to shutdown I want it to do it as quickly as possible. Not with timers or confirm twice.  I often have a train to catch or my wife wants me to go shopping or something. If its a laptop I have to wait until its powered down to undock it and take it with me. There is another operating system which thinks its the ideal time to upgrade the system and even goes so far as to tell me not to power off during this time.  How frustrating is that.

Once I say I want to leave, and stop long enough to decide in what manner, I would argue that is confirmation enough of my intention.  With KDE 3 I have probably made one mistake in 2 years - and that was because I changed my mind, not because I hit the wrong button.
Comment 38 Javier 2008-06-26 02:44:50 UTC
The first time I used the buttons for logout or shutdown I was expecting them to do that right away. They seem like direct actions that I could perform in a full dedicated menu for leaving options. Instead of that I found yet another window with the action that I already made hovered, the other options there too and a full minute to wait until my decision is taken if I don't click another time. Well, it's not like I'll die for that click but it's just not what I expected to happen. Anyway, I'm happy right now been able to adjust the behaviour in System Settings, but just wanted to say that, for me, it wasn't the expected behaviour.

So to finish, yet another idea. If a full menu dedicated to the leaving options doesn't make people select the option carefully, why not remove the whole leave menu from Kickoff and replace it with a single leave button. Then, the options are showed like in the confirmation dialog that now exists. 3 clicks away and with the final decision to be made on a different window, that should aware people about what they are doing.
Comment 39 Maciej Pilichowski 2008-06-26 10:44:57 UTC
It works fine now, if you correctly configure ksmserver (both confirmation and offering options --> OFF). So I think it is FIXED.

Btw. interfering with kickoff is maybe a bit unfortunate but I think that the other reports (configurable menus, and plasmoids) should be fixed first.

Then user could configure what she/he wants -- kickoff as it is today, leave item shows leave menu, for classic KMenu it shows leave screen, the same for desktop context menu and for plasmoid. If anyone wants immediate logout/restart/etc just puts appropriate item in Kmenu/plasmoid/context menu.

More flexibility, 100% configurable, no obscure options.
Comment 40 Davide Ferrari 2008-06-26 11:07:00 UTC
Maciej, yes, I was arguing the same, at least in trunk there's now an option (hopefully distros will ship with the right behaviour by default).
Maybe a last confirmation dialog (that should implemented in kickoff) would be ok (as in KDE3) but anyway without any dialog is ways better than with the whole logout dialog shown again.
Gilson (or Lubos), please close the bug as fixed
Comment 41 Kevin Kofler 2008-06-27 15:26:44 UTC
Do you mean the "Confirm logout" option? The problem is that if you disable that, you break the classic menu, which only has one Logout button. So we can't enable that option in distributions! What is needed is a way to have Kickoff log out directly, but the classic menu pop up the logout dialog.
Comment 42 Kevin Kofler 2008-06-27 15:27:44 UTC
(By the way, the "Confirm logout" option is not new, it has always been there! It's just unusable as a default.)
Comment 43 Kevin Kofler 2008-06-27 15:31:27 UTC
Oops, to clarify, I mean: "So we can't _disable_ that option in distributions!" The only safe default is to keep "Confirm logout" enabled as it is in upstream KDE.
Comment 44 Maciej Pilichowski 2008-06-27 15:57:12 UTC
ad.#41) reference to classic KMenu is inaccurate, it has only leave button, so option "do not show options" is needed to be ON
Comment 45 Dotan Cohen 2008-07-01 15:19:20 UTC
*** Bug 165479 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 46 Aaron J. Seigo 2008-07-07 01:02:51 UTC
*** Bug 165680 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 47 Marcel Schaal 2008-09-11 10:11:31 UTC
*** Bug 170831 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 48 Oswald Buddenhagen 2009-05-31 19:40:11 UTC
SVN commit 976028 by ossi:

try to fix up the shutdown stuff

first of all, deprecate the braindead ShutdownTypeLogout again and alias
it to ShutdownTypeNone internally, as the latter means "logout only"
(that enum refers to the machine's state, not the session's).

unify the semantics of ksmserver's d-bus interface to interpret a
shutdown request with a pre-selected shutdown type as needing only a
confirmation, not a full choice. this is a behavior break from the
original implementation, but that actually happened in 4.2 already - i'm
just fixing it.

all "generic" logout actions (alt-ctrl-del, lock_logout applet, plasma
desktop menu) now always pop up the full shutdown dialog, irrespective
of the "confirm shutdown" option.
"specialized" logout actions (like in kickoff's "leave" menu) continue
to respect the "confirm shutdown" option. if the confirmation is
enabled, the reduced shutdown dialog will appear as before (only some
implementation details changed).

BUG: 152110
BUG: 177139
BUG: 182466

 M  +1 -1      krunner/krunnerapp.cpp  
 M  +9 -2      ksmserver/shutdown.cpp  
 M  +64 -69    ksmserver/shutdowndlg.cpp  
 M  +3 -2      ksmserver/shutdowndlg.h  
 M  +4 -6      ksmserver/tests/test.cpp  
 M  +4 -2      libs/kworkspace/kworkspace.h  
 M  +1 -3      plasma/applets/kickoff/core/itemhandlers.cpp  
 M  +1 -1      plasma/applets/lock_logout/lockout.cpp  
 M  +1 -1      plasma/containments/desktop/desktop.cpp  

WebSVN link: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=976028
Comment 49 Dotan Cohen 2010-01-28 22:57:57 UTC
Oswald, the issue is still not fixed. In KDE SC 4.4 to shut down the machine one clicks the Kmenu, then the Leave button, then the Shutdown button in the submenu, then the Turn Off Computer button in the popup.

This is too much. In my opinion, the Kmenu Leave submenu is redundant. Once a user clicks the Leave button in Kmenu, the popup should be displayed immediately with the Leave options (restart, shitdown, hibernate, etc).
Comment 50 Felix Miata 2010-01-28 23:17:48 UTC
Isn't there by default a fifth "are you sure?" to click?
Comment 51 Istvan Gabor 2010-01-28 23:32:18 UTC
Why is a leave menu in start menu is needed at all? Why 'logout', and 'lock session' shortcuts can not be directly at the bottom of the start menu as in KDE3? What was the problem with that approach?
Comment 52 Oswald Buddenhagen 2010-02-28 23:07:14 UTC
ksmserver's logout dialog is minimal (click one button and you're done). how one gets there with the mouse is plasma's problem, so reassigning there.

of course, *real* users use shift-alt-ctrl-pgdn and don't complain ...
Comment 53 Aaron J. Seigo 2010-05-03 21:45:14 UTC
there is no further progress to made on this: kickoff takes two clicks, three if you have confirmation turned on in the global settings. the lock/logout plasmoid is a single click solution. the others require confirmation since they are not specific enough ("Leave.."). the classic menu is there for those who want that (aka "KDE 3 style").