| Summary: | atrocious grammar: internationalization including more/all lowercase option (except formally-named programs) | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| Product: | [Translations] i18n | Reporter: | David Chmelik <dchmelik> |
| Component: | en_GB | Assignee: | David Edmundson <kde> |
| Status: | RESOLVED NOT A BUG | ||
| Severity: | normal | CC: | kde, kde, plasma-bugs-null |
| Priority: | NOR | ||
| Version First Reported In: | unspecified | ||
| Target Milestone: | --- | ||
| Platform: | Other | ||
| OS: | Linux | ||
| Latest Commit: | Version Fixed/Implemented In: | ||
| Sentry Crash Report: | |||
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Description
David Chmelik
2020-11-18 02:16:24 UTC
It is not "bad grammar" but title case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case https://hig.kde.org/style/writing/capitalization.html (and other pages on the hig where one should use title case) The thing is, it's mostly not actual titles (not title case.) Pick the top worst specific offender, and lets take a look. I can believe we may have some mistakes, but this report as-is is too vague to be actionable. I'm unsure which things were made titles that normally aren't but sound most odd that way. Besides my examples of categories in kicker menu & systemsettings (development, education, games, graphics, Internet (exception,) multimedia, office, science & mathematics, settings, system, utilities, lost & found, help, power & session, appearance, workspace, personalization, network, hardware, system administration, and many sub-categories,) most the user folders (desktop, documents, downloads, videos, pictures, music,) categories in dolphin (places, remote, recent, search for, devices, subcategories but autostart is done right) and most buttons... on menus, I consider it okay as letters are underlined. I wouldn't call a random category/place/device full of random things (even if some have titles) to be a title in itself, nor recents & 'search for ____' or an 'okay' button, or an unnamed network to be entire section headings... maybe one of these last three is a 'worst offender' but it's hard to tell. I could make an argument for most the 'titled' things. I realize the categories kicker & systemsettings probably had people work on separate components or markup areas, and they may consider those titles in themselves... but really, the main creative/titled works there are specific KDE programs, and the entire systemsettings program. Nevertheless, /usr/[local\/]bin, /usr/[local\/]sbin have specific creative works but programmers tend to not capitalize things there. I know most people would find that not overdoing titling would start to look weird, because they forgot how proper nouns worked before the GUI desktop PC era... but I think a few people would like the change. I renamed all my categories in Kicker menu and Dolphin, so maybe that's enough for me... just I end up doing that on almost every installation. The worst offender is category lists (in menus (kicker, kickoff, top of applications etc.) & sidebars (in file manager (dolphin, konqueror)) because are large multiple instances. Second-worst (as is only one thing) is buttons.
The KDE style link is now a dead link. Normally university technical writing classes are done by English experts (professors or their department's certified tutors at a British English level) and if your standards (do you have a new link?) weren't written with their help they're quite likely incorrect.
Please seriously consider my description how it's equivalent to how people never describe (in capitals) a large sequence of average things they might during the day ("I opened the Garage Door to go open the Toolbox to get my Hammer and Nails to work on the Workbench to work on a Wooden Craft Project.)
Whether it's intentional, users who want stricter standards should have opt-out option, though doesn't break functionality so could be put on wishlist.
Of course, I (and some friends/family) use British English KDE. Another mistake is systemsettings can't find 'alternative' where slang American English (bad grammar dialect) rewrote 'alternate' (not synonym: younger Americans using as such are absolutely incorrect.) Why would a German project not mainly use British English? I edited Kicker menu and Dolphin side panel, so those are almost solved except can't lowercase 'devices,' 'places' 'recent,' 'remote,' 'search,' 'recent applications,' 'power/session (nor sub-entries... slash standard is no spaces beside,)' Sure, some kicker/etc. menu categories can be academic/school/department subjects (development/programming, education, graphics, multimedia, network, system, but not likely games, help, lost & found, office, settings, nor anything in Dolphin) so that way are proper nouns, but same subjects in most (non-academic) usage aren't proper nouns (hence lowercase)... even clearer for those, and two I can't lowercase, and Dolphin sidebar... if you compare/contrast to anything else (Dolphin sidebar categories in normal conversation, Kicker 'recent applications' versus recent physical objects/appliances/tools used, and 'power/session' & etc. versus physical controls) any smart enough person (including British schoolkids who did okay through first year/class/grade) knows those are /never/ capitalized, nor are buttons/dials/knobs/levers/switches & etc... even in most substandard English (many Chinese-written) manuals that make several/many grammar/spelling mistakes, but typically only uppercase their company and maybe (in conjunction) product name. I don't know all KDE history but was inspired by CDE (apparently inspired by Windows (inspired by Apple))... but the two most popular desktop GUIs' founders/creators were American college dropouts. Bad grammar dialect country college dropouts set modern GUI text standards... yet most programmers follow! It's okay to ask a programmer about programming language, not necessarily human language. That's why I won't necessarily agree saying 'intended' nor your style guides are relevant (in contrast to higher academic English reference/textbooks, such as ones we have from London, etc., and ones from Oxford & Cambridge, and such standards-based technical writing.) Most programming/developing/engineering years/decades possibly haven't needed to read PC manual recently, so verify yours if buttons are lowercase (and in physical controls' design/instruction texts for all subjects/industries) and ask why is same different in GUI? Only because standards were set by bad grammar dialect country college dropouts, not British higher academic English experts. Having fixed most Kicker menu & Dolphin entries is almost enough, but fixing everywhere is a wish. Kicker's incorrect capitalization makes me think (stressful) I should be back in university focusing on several such categories again, and you've probably heard using all capitals in chat is like shouting... but when chatters capitalize every word (a few foreigners do) it's same, as is incorrect capitalization: for many years, also feels like shouting! Incorrect capitalization is harder to read/use. Try proper English conventions and see if you notice difference. If you command-line UNIX/GNU/Linux code in a directory/folder with some/many different languages and projects, you most likely made it all lowercase (to decrease typing, and looks nicer, not just there but everywhere.) > British English KDE
British English is a translation of the American English messages in the code
Kicker and Dolphin are as intended. It matches an established software pattern like the toolbar of the BBC homepage or the sidebar of the wizard when you open libreoffice. |