Bug 192071

Could this wish be extended to add "grouping" feature to the list view?

I would consider that a different request, Finex. I very much dislike grouping, however, I would like to have the folders shown separately from the files.

Ok Dotan :-)

Sorry, I don't understand this wish. Currently in the icon view the folders are per default always shown before the files. What do you mean by "separated"? Adding a line between the folders and the files?

> Adding a line between the folders and the files?

Yes, like the lines that the"grouping" feature uses. Just having the folders before the files is not helpful, having them physically separated would be great.

Thanks, Peter!

If a "separation" could be implemented, I'll prefer to have a grouping feature on the list view, not have only a separation like Dotan suggested. Having the grouping feature on icon view and this separation on list view is not a good idea: there is the risk of adding confusion on the UI.

Anyway dolphin can already be configured to have something similar (without the "details"). Look at the screenshot :-)

Created attachment 33502 [details]
dolphin grouping example

I see that you have sorted by type then grouped. Although that does separate the folders from the files, it has these drawbacks:

1) The files are sorted by type! I need sort by date, usually, and sometimes by name. Never by type.

2) The files are spread out over too much vertical space and not enough horizontal. That means a scrollbar (a long scrollbar at that) then otherwise none would be necessary.

Created attachment 33531 [details]
Screenshot of KDE 3 file chooser dialogue

It appears that this feature was available in KDE 3, at least in the File Chooser dialogues. See attached screenshot.

Created attachment 33532 [details]
No confusion here!

> Having the grouping feature on icon view and
> this separation on list view is not a good
> idea: there is the risk of adding confusion
> on the UI.

Most certainly not! Look at the screenshot, what is confusing? I should post a screenshot of my documents folder as it currently show up in Dolphin, you will see what confusing is (which is why I opened this feature request in the first place).

Created attachment 33533 [details]
This is confusion!

This is my "documents" folder. Can you tell what is a folder and what is a file? Custom icons for folders are important as one can identify a visual image much faster than reading text (which is why we use icons in toolbars, and why racecars use analogue guages). However, keeping them in the same visual space as the files is absurd as they serve two different purposes: one is for navigation (folders) and the other is for data (text).

Hm, after seeing the screenshot from comment #11 I understand the need for your request. However in my opinion the root cause of the whole issue is that you applied icons to folders that that don't look like folders anymore. So a "real" fix for this issue would be having folder icons with a custom icon overlay IMO. There are already folder icons available for this usecase, but probably too less for your environment. Maybe we could introduce a generic mechanism to provide custom overlay icons for folders?

(In reply to comment #10)
> Created an attachment (id=33532) [details]
> No confusion here!
> 
> > Having the grouping feature on icon view and
> > this separation on list view is not a good
> > idea: there is the risk of adding confusion
> > on the UI.
> 
> Most certainly not! Look at the screenshot, what is confusing? I should post a
> screenshot of my documents folder as it currently show up in Dolphin, you will
> see what confusing is (which is why I opened this feature request in the first
> place).

with "confusion" on the UI, I mean that the UI itself, not the information presented to the user: adding this "line" means another option to the software, moreover an option very similar to an existing one (group). 

You know that more options equals more flexibility and, unfortunatly, more complexity. It is necessary to keep a balanced level between those both.

I've the same opinion of Peter: probably you should use icon folders which visually helps you. An interesting solution, otherwise, could be implemeting this: bug #37300.

> However in my opinion the root cause of the whole issue is
> that you applied icons to folders that that don't look like
> folders anymore. However in my opinion the root cause of the
> whole issue is that you applied icons to folders that that
> don't look like folders anymore.

The problem is present even when not using custom folder icons, because different file types have different icons. Yes I know that in Linux everything (including directories) is a file, but for humans to operate a file browser just calling a folder a special type of file (by giving it it's own icon) is not a solution, it is barely even a hack.

The problem is that folders are used for navigation, and files are used for data. They should _not_ be in the same place. No UI designer would think of putting the Back, Forward, and other toolbar icons in the same physical space as the file icons, so why are the folders there?

Resetting assignee to default as per bug #305719

Dotan, can you check if the "Folders First" option in the "Sort by" menu is sufficient? This way, if you sort e.g. by date, you still get folders separated from files. There is no visual separator (line etc.), but what is depicted in comment #11 will not happen.

Thank you Christoph. Actualy, the "Folders First" option is already set in that screenshot!

The issue is to visually determine what are directories and what are files without having to remember all the names.

As Christoph mentioned 4 years ago, this works as expected. There is a "Show folders first" that accomplishes this. They may not be separated with a separator line, but they *are* first. If your folders don't look like folders, that's an issue with your icon theme or your own decisions, if you were the one who gave them ambiguous icons.