Version: 3.3.90 (using KDE 3.3.90 (alpha1, CVS >= 20041206), Gentoo) Compiler: gcc version 3.4.3 20041125 (Gentoo Linux 3.4.3-r1, ssp-3.4.3-0, pie-8.7.7) OS: Linux (i686) release 2.6.9-gentoo-r12 Please please please bring back icon zooming. Give the option if the user wants icon zooming or the tooltips. Tooltips are cool - but they take up so much screen real estate! It doesn't even have to be smooth zooming - just plain old zooming works for me!
due to bugs icon zooming brings with it and the current design goals of kicker, this will not happen in mainline.
Then can I ask for an option to turn off the text in the tooltip and only show the icon? :) (go ahead and close it again if you still don't want to fix it...)
why did you reopen this bug? look at who it is assigned to: the same person who made the decision to close it. if you provide new evidence that behooves the report to be re-opened, then it can (and will) be reopened. i do get CC'd on every comment posted, whether the bug is open or not. > Then can I ask for an option to turn off the text in the tooltip and only > show the icon? why? having things endlessly tweakable is not a goal that makes any sense. allowing configurability where there are benefits to doing so does. unless you can provide some good reason for making this configurable, then there is no reason at all to make it configurable. you can turn them off altogether, of course. > go ahead and close it again if you still don't want to fix it "fix it" implies something's broken. there isn't. if you wish to influence my decisions try not to use loaded language.
just saw this which similarily ('choosable icon effect (icon zooming, current magical float thing, others)') I wanted to file aswell... now a quick word about that.. I respect your work on Kicker and stuff, and you recently have contributed a lot of great stuff (THANK YOU!!). But, no offense intended, could you probably be a bit more open minded with new wish ideas? I know a lot of the WONTFIXes deserve it, but I think some may have good ideas which might be difficult to implement/ conflict with current code, but hey. > why? having things endlessly tweakable is not a goal that makes any > sense. allowing configurability where there are benefits to doing so > does. unless you can provide some good reason for making this > configurable, then there is no reason at all to make it configurable. I think it does make sense. This is KDE, right, not another wellknown desktop project, so this is exactly what a whole lot of users want. more nifty options. Not overkill, but I think no features should be not integrated because only 5% might find it useful - because choice is the KDE way ;==) > if you wish to influence my decisions try not to use loaded language. hey you make good decisions but leave a bit more space to creativity... I'd love different FX for kicker, probably even a plugin structure.. if it is not feasible right now - it might be the fault of the code. If it modularised enough it should be possible, and I think a lot of people _would_ like this. You could have them cool tooltips, or choose plain old icon zooming, or someone could write a smooth icon zooming plugin. It won't hurt if it is implemented right, i.e. a proper interface for icon effects which gets triggered OnMouseOver. I'm all for it. Anyways, thank you for your work again and keep up the spirit .==)
I would really like to see the original icon zooming return as an option as well. I too think that kde is a lot about configurability, in contrast to the g-thing.
*** Bug 99969 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Please please please keep this feature. KDE is meant to be about allowing to do (or not do) whatever you like, removing something lots of people use for no very good reason (I've read your blog, and other bugs, and still don't see one) isn't good. Given everyone seems to be saying 'bring it back', and no one is aruging the counterpoint apart from you, would you reconsider ? We can have a plugable effect system at some point, then you can throw away the code you don't like.
The new feature with the pop-up text display is nearly useless (sorry), AFAIC. Icon zooming is not. It is a nice, unobtrusive way to get quick feedback on the icon being selected, allowing me to make kicker as small as possible while still allowing for "normal" sized icons, when zoomed. It keeps them out of my way (because they're small until moused over) 'til I need them. The first thing I will do with the new pop-ups, sorry to say, is disable them.
> > > > Forgive the next comment but the new icon effect is big and ugly and makes it > > > > look more Windows xp than windows xp. I'm sure that many people like and use > > > > it. I personally think its intusive and ugly. > > > more Windows xp than windows xp > ah yes; you don't like it, so it's like Windows. =) Not quite, take XP's new Start Menu. It takes up one third of the screen, and to get anything useful out of the menu you take up the rest of the screen. It's big ugly and intrusive, just like the new icon effects.
As I said in a response on your blog, icon zooming is what allows my laptops to actually be usuable. If I have to make the icons big enough to easiliy and accurately click them, then there's little point in bothering to change from the default desktop. This was not just "eye candy". This is was very useful and very, very much needed feature that greatly increased usability productivity. If you're really dead set on not brining this back, please say so now so I can start looking for a new desktop, one where the developers listen to the users instead of just doing whatever they want.
> This is was very useful and very, very much needed feature that greatly > increased usability productivity. so very very much needed that many MacOS X users turn it off and the users of all other environments manage without it somehow? i agree with you that when the icons got REALLY huge when moused over it was a nice way to make the targets appear bigger. but there are two things to consider: 1) it's at least partially an illusion! you actually had to still park your mouse over a tiny target to get the bigger target. this is why Apple uses hyperbolic zooming: it actually makes the targets bigger as opposed to appear bigger. the only benefit of the old zooming is that once you reached your target, you could move the pointer around more without missing it. 2) in recent versions prior to 3.4 the icons didn't even zoom that much. try it in 3.3 with a tiny panel. why was this change made? because other icons didn't move out of the way of the new bigger icon and were therefore covered by it. the solution? hyperbolic zooming, or make the zoomed icons smaller. this drastically reduced the benefit of zooming icons for me and, likely, you as well. btw, Apple apparently owns and will happily defend the patent on hyperbolic zooming in panels. > If you're really dead set on not brining this back, well, it's not going to happen for 3.4 in any case. > please say so now so I can start looking for a new desktop, one where the > developers listen to the users instead of just doing whatever they want. what you really mean is one where the developers listen to you. i used icon zooming, and rather liked it. i actually started out to improve it. i rapidly ran into the problems it caused and as i did more research into it discovered huge numbers of users who disliked it and wanted something better. this ranged from people using tablet PCs to people wanting to provide greater feedback to the users they supported as to what the panel icons did. i listened to these users, and weighed it against the technical issues with the icon zooming as it existed. if you want icon zooming, i'd suggest using ksmoothdock or one of the other kicker replacements available on kde-apps.org. nobody forces anyone to use kicker. in fact, kicker no longer even forces you to use its default panel! but, if you wish to use another desktop, so be it. saying that i or other KDE developers simply don't listen to the user base is complete crap, however.
i'd also add another possible solution for Rob Hughes' laptops: use an autohiding panel set to large. it's what i tend to do to get the most out of what little real estate there are on some laptops, even with icon zooming.
> so very very much needed that many MacOS X users turn it off and the users of all > other environments manage without it somehow. First, hyperbolic zooming is big ugly and intrusive. Second, we're not using other environments we're using KDE and for some of us the icon zooming, as it was, helped to make KDE standout. There was absolutely no need to improve it. Don't fix what ain't broke. > i'd suggest using ksmoothdock or one of the other kicker replacements I've been looking into them, and there are a whole lot of problems. The first one being, that none of them make it easy to put icons into the docker, and none of them have an option to make them size the docker from one side of the screen to the other and none of them take on the default KDE style. The real problem is that these kicker replacements want to make KDE function like OSX. I don't want an OSX environment. I want my KDE icon zooming.
I take it back, hyperbolic zooming is not big, ugly and intrusive, I meant to say, big distracting and overwhelmingly "wow factor"
> Don't fix what ain't broke. tell that to all the people who reported bugs with the icon zooming. the gravest bugs, when triggered, made it impossible to even launch the button's associated tasks.
> > Don't fix what ain't broke. > tell that to all the people who reported bugs with the icon zooming. the gravest bugs, when triggered, made it > impossible to even launch the button's associated tasks Never had that problem. And like many have said, if they don't like the feature they always had the option of switching it off.
Actually, that's not 100% true, but it wasn't a kicker problem per se. If for any reason my authenticating server went down. then nothing would run in kde which makes sense since nothing could be authenticated. But, once the server was back up everything worked fine again.
> so very very much needed that many MacOS X users turn it off Fine, give us the option to turn it off *if we want to*. Don't just decide noone could possible want it and remove it. > patent Don't be silly. > what you really mean is one where the developers listen to you. Again, I havn't seen this huge mass of users you keep going on about. If you mean IRC weenies, please ignore them. > don't like the feature they always had the option of switching it off +1 > server went down... nothing would run in KDE *shrug* if our NFS server goes down, all sorts of stuff on my box stops working (KDE included).
> Don't just decide noone could possible want it and remove it. that wasn't the thought process that led to the removal of the feature, and i'm growing a little bit tired here of being accused of such things in this thread. > > patent > > Don't be silly. i'm not. it's the truth. and it's not the only feature we've had to curtail in KDE due to patents owned by Apple. you may find software patents laughable, but the courts in North America don't. until that changes, a certain amount of healthy respect for them is in order. > Again, I havn't seen this huge mass of users you keep going on about. i'm neither deluded nor lying to you. i haven't kept a roster with their names in it, but i have received numerous emails and read comments in blogs and in web forums. i'm beginning to get the idea that to you unless something fits your world view and perspectives 100% it doesn't exist. > If you mean IRC weenies, please ignore them. wow. you have got to be one of the most obnoxious people i've dealt with in a long time on bugs.kde.org. how about i just ignore the bugs.kde.org weenies who are posting in this report. does that work for you?
Can we calm it down a touch ? By weenie, I was refering to things like: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2004/10/hello-kicker-helpers-bye-bye-icon.html " IRC is proving fertile ground for finding kicker janitors " - this makes it sound like you are pulling in ideas and code from random 14 year old kids rather than listening to what (well versed) people are saying. > patents So host in Europe then. Or anyone of the other less bonkers places to live. In anycase, the patent appears to be on hyperbolic scaling, which zooming isn't. Stardock don't seem to care about the patent, incidently, in their ObjectDock product. > work for you Well, no, because you're removing a feature lots of people use, before it's replacement is ready, because some people have a problem with it. The way to please everyone would be to make it an option, wouldn't it ?
OK - I thought I'd weigh in on this one again, since it was me who started this whole report... (warning - rant follows, interspersed with valid points... :) ) At first, I was on the side of most of the users here - I couldn't understand why a valuable option would be taken away, and replaced with something that I felt was less than acceptable. However, over time, I have grown to like the new popups, and actually have them turned on now (I had them turned off for a while). They are something that differentiates KDE from other desktop environments. And it's a big advertising jumping off point - when someone sees it on my desktop, it gives me the opportunity to tell them what I'm running. Now, there are two arguments that are thrown around a lot with respect to KDE and other open-source software. One: You need to have flexibility and options. Two: There needs to be a simple interface for new users. Where the two of these conflict, I think you should favor number 2. If we don't get new users to start using open-source software, then it won't advance as much as we would like. Most of the reason it is making such advances now is that many people are starting to see the value of a polished, easy-to-use desktop. If we clutter that with too many options, then it will always look like it's half-baked. Like Aaron mentioned, you end up with too many different ways of doing things (like in the clock applet.) However, this doesn't mean that you don't have the flexibility. Or that you should passionately argue for what you would like to see. It *is* after all OPEN-source. You are free to change whatever you see needs to be changed - regardless of whether the official developers agree with you or not. I think that by "flexibility in open-source software," the idea is that *YOU* have the flexibility to do whatever you want. Not that you have the flexibility to demand that the developers do whatever you want. Open-source developers in general, and KDE developers in specific are very under-appreciated. Some of them do KDE programming for a living - in which case, they don't have as much of a decision as to what options can go in to KDE...their employer has the final say in that. Most, however, do this on the side, and have their own goals, and desires toward how the desktop should look and behave. Now to the flexibility part I mentioned above. *NOTHING* is stopping you from patching your own version of KDE to use icon zooming instead of the tags...you could even put your own options into it. I have had to maintain 3 or 4 different patch sets against the CVS tree because the developers haven't seen fit to include my options into the code base. Some of them, I still don't agree with the decision not to include them. I argued my best, but the decision was made. Now, with respect to icon zooming: I don't know when the icon zooming was removed from KDE, but maybe Aaron could help out and tell us what version of the CVS files had the icon zooming in it. You can use that as a jumping-off point for creating your own patches. Who knows, if you create a patch that is good enough, it *might* (and I say "might") be included in a future version of KDE. Along those lines, one thing that you need to remember is open-source software is not necessarily free as in no-cost. Open-source software is free as in the freedom to modify it if you wish (or if you don't agree with how other people are modifying it). It's a community effort. Help out in other ways besides just complaining in bug reports. We have a saying here in the US that if you don't vote in the election, you don't have the right to complain about who is president. It is similar in open-source software. Don't treat it like it's a right for you to have free software. You need to put forth some kind of effort (monetary, coding, testing, etc.) in order to get the real value out of it. Even those who don't have any money to donate, or don't know how to program can help out open-source software by testing and reporting valid bugs. A "valid" bug is one that would affect a majority of users - not just you at this time. It's OK to report wishes and bugs that are just for you from time-to-time, but there isn't a need to fight tooth-and-nail for your changes to be made. The developers are not your slaves to be commanded to put in a change as you see fit. The purpose of bug-reporting is to expose the problem, and leave it up to the developers to come up with a solution. If you aren't going to learn how to program, then you haven't earned the right to demand a certain implementation. OK - enough ranting.
BTW - I will try sometime (while I'm on vacation...if possible) to whip up an implementation of what I suggested in Comment #2. It might be a good enough solution for most of you. I'll post a patch as an attachment to this bug - but I won't maintain it or make sure that it works or guarantee it in any way. And I'm not promising anything - I said I'd "TRY"...
thanks Nathan... well said... i'd just add that the major reason for removing icon zooming was not over configurability, though that certainly was one consideration that helped push it over the tipping point. there are a lot of options in kicker that aren't visible in the configuration dialog, but are there to make various groups of kicker users happy (like the setting to disable the separator titles in the kmenu, or the setting to change the size of the icons in the menus). i have very little problem with such settings. icon zooming, however, had some very real and intractable implementation issues and fixing it really meant ripping it out by the roots. it wasn't just a matter of "we could just hide the config option!" in the future, KickerTip will likely end up being plugin-based and that will allow for all sorts of possibilities, something that simply was not possible with icon zooming. as for implementing an option to turn off the text and only show the icon, that'd be fine. while you're at it, make it so you can turn off the icon optionally... so.. Icon, Text or IconAndText .. or something like that =) doesn't have to be in the GUI either ... the files you'll probably want to look at is kdebase/share/kickertip.* ------ regarding patents and moving development to Europe: it isn't where development occurs, it's where distribution occurs. i don't want to be responsible for KDE not being able to be distributed in North America, nor do i want to put burden on those who do so to have to maintain huge unwieldy patches just because i'm not affected by the insanity of software patents. regarding pulling ideas from 14 year old kids rather than well versed individuals, try coming by #kde-devel some time on freenode.net and take a gander at the people who are there. i'm a bit smarter than to go around trolling for volunteers in #1337 on dalnet.
If you like the new tags; that's great. Use them in good health (sincerely). However, a user has right to ask a developer even if that user doesn't know programming. And a user has a right to fight tooth and nail for something if that's his desire. Regarding patents, KDE's icons zooming does not function like nor does it seemed to be programmed like OSX's docker. It's far more simple and in my humble opinion is by far a more elegant feature from me a user's perspective. So, I do not see what the patent issue is here. KDE's icon zooming is not smooth, animated resizing. As far as I can tell, its simply icon flipping. So call it that and be done with the bogus patent issue. To continue regarding the issue of users requesting features, etc. KDE is not something that is programmed for private consumption. It is programmed and distrubeted to the general public for their use. It goes without saying that a person can take it or leave it. But, my understanding of open source is that part of the process is the continuous request for feedback. Well, here it is, there are some who are trying out the BETA of KDE 3.4 and providing feedback. That feedback in this case basically is, "Why the heck did you strip out the interface that I've found invaluable. Please return it to the way it was." Again, if people have a problem with that feature, then they have always had the option of switching it off. And we are the relatively few people out there using the BETA version. The rest of the KDE users, probably the vast majority of users, who are waiting for the final release are probably not aware of this particular change. And. I'll be credits to navy beans that the feed back that you're going to get will be 100 fold greater than what's going on currently. The essential value of icon zooming is that it makes many KDE users happy. All that being said, my admiration for KDE programmers is enormous. I am constantly amazed at how they seem to make a working environment that is more stable and elegant than anything else out there. Icon zooming is one of those features. It takes the basic panel, which is an extremely useful feature took the idea of icon zooming and made it more simple and elegant than Apple hyperbolic zooming with simple icon flipping. This made the panel even more useful. Sincerly
Oh... one other thing... if you guys are so worried about US patents. Then call the technique icon panel flipping and apply for a US patent.
Created attachment 9893 [details] Lets you customize the popup This patch is against HEAD. It allows you to specify two entries in your ~/.kde/share/config/kickerrc "General" section: ShowToolTipText=true/false ShowToolTipIcon=true/false to either turn on the showing of icons and text in the tool tip. There is not a user interface for this, since not many will need to configure it regularly - think of them as "hidden options" :)
CVS commit by aseigo: my gift offering to the tweakers out there. original patch submitted by Nathan Toon CCBUGS:95783 M +22 -2 kickerSettings.kcfg 1.8 M +41 -15 kickertip.cpp 1.11 --- kdebase/kicker/share/kickerSettings.kcfg #1.7:1.8 @@ -41,10 +41,12 @@ <entry name="TintValue" type="Int" > - <label>Tint amount</label> + <label>Controls the saturation level of the tint color used with transparent panels</label> <default>0</default> + <min>0</min> + <max>100</max> </entry> <entry name="TintColor" type="Color" > - <label>Tint Color</label> + <label>The tint color used to colorize transparent panels</label> <default code="true">(QApplication::palette().active().mid())</default> </entry> @@ -214,8 +216,10 @@ <entry name="SidePixmapName" key="SideName" type="String" > + <label>The name of the file to use as the side image in the K Menu</label> <default>kside.png</default> </entry> <entry name="SideTileName" key="SideTileName" type="String" > + <label>The name of the file used as a tile to fill the height of K Menu that SidePixmapName doesn't cover</label> <default>kside_tile.png</default> </entry> @@ -231,4 +235,20 @@ </entry> +<entry name="MouseOversShowIcon" type="Bool" > + <label>Show icons in mouse over effects</label> + <default>true</default> + </entry> + +<entry name="MouseOversShowText" type="Bool" > + <label>Show text in mouse over effects</label> + <default>true</default> + </entry> + +<entry name="MouseOversSpeed" type="Int" > + <label>Controls how fast the tooltips fade in, measured in thousandths of a second</label> + <default>500</default> + <min>0</min> + </entry> + <entry name="EnableTileBackground" type="Bool" > <label>Enable background tiles</label> --- kdebase/kicker/share/kickertip.cpp #1.10:1.11 @@ -33,4 +33,5 @@ CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE #include "kickertip.h" +#include "kickerSettings.h" static const int DEFAULT_FRAMES = 30; @@ -77,5 +78,21 @@ void KickerTip::display(const QString& t subtext + "</p></qt>", font()); + + if (KickerSettings::mouseOversShowIcon()) + { m_icon = icon; + } + else if (KickerSettings::mouseOversShowText()) + { + m_icon = QPixmap(); + } + else + { + // don't bother since we have NOTHING to show + // but still make sure we don't show up in the taskbar! + KWin::setState(winId(), NET::Sticky | NET::SkipTaskbar | NET::SkipPager | NET::KeepAbove); + return; + } + m_maskEffect = isVisible() ? Plain : mEff; m_dissolveSize = 24; @@ -84,5 +101,5 @@ void KickerTip::display(const QString& t displayInternal(); - m_frameTimer.start(500 / DEFAULT_FRAMES); + m_frameTimer.start(KickerSettings::mouseOversSpeed() / DEFAULT_FRAMES); // close the message window after given mS @@ -184,15 +201,21 @@ void KickerTip::displayInternal() // determine text rectangle - QRect textRect(0, 0, m_richText->width(), m_richText->height()); + QRect textRect(0, 0, 0, 0); + int marginHint = 0; + if (KickerSettings::mouseOversShowText()) + { + textRect.setWidth(m_richText->width()); + textRect.setHeight(m_richText->height()); + marginHint = KDialog::marginHint(); + } + textRect.moveBy(-textRect.left(), -textRect.top()); textRect.addCoords(0, 0, 2, 2); int textX = 2 + 3 * m_icon.width() / 2; - int width = textX + textRect.width() + KDialog::marginHint(); + int width = textX + textRect.width() + marginHint; int height = QMAX(3 * m_icon.height() / 2 , textRect.height()); int textY = (height - textRect.height()) / 2; - resize(width, height); - // resize pixmap, mask and widget m_mask.resize(width, height); @@ -230,4 +253,6 @@ void KickerTip::displayInternal() } + if (KickerSettings::mouseOversShowText()) + { // draw text shadow QColorGroup cg = colorGroup(); @@ -239,4 +264,5 @@ void KickerTip::displayInternal() cg = colorGroup(); m_richText->draw(&bufferPainter, 5 + textX, textY, rect(), cg); + } }
*** Bug 102058 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***