Version: (using KDE Devel) Installed from: Compiled sources Compiler: gcc (GCC) 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux 10.0 3.3.2-6mdk) OS: Linux I compiled kdelibs and kdebase from CVS on Friday 16 April and when I restarted my desktop the icon spacing on the desktop had gone from nice to widely spaced - in fact so far spaced that I can now fit another icon between each one. This is if I use the "Align to Grid" option of the icons popup from the RMB click on the desktop which was what I was using before.
Created attachment 5692 [details] This shows the icons being widely spaced.
I noticed the same difference between KDE 3.2 and KDE 3.3. The few icons I had on my desktop now take up all desktop space... :( Anyway, you have my vote for this one..
You have my vote. The KDE 3.2 layout convaince me (but could be improved). One thing I would *really* want to have is that the layout take care of *all* the width of the screen. Let me explain: Currently (3.2) KDesktop put all icons side by side based on a fixed width per item. And then, there is *remaining space* at right and on bottom of the screen: icons are sticked to the top and the left of the screen. Then, KDesktop should compute how many pixels each icons should be width, and take the empty width to share it to every icons. Hum... That's not clear. Example : - The screen is 125 pixels width (*simplistic* example ;-) ). - KDesktop compute that each icons should be 12 pixels width : there is then 10 icons per "row". - It remains 5 pixels : it then compute that each icon should have 5/10=0.5 pixels in more. - Each icon then will be 12.5 width. (of course one icon will be 12 pixels and the following will be 13 (need temporar float variables), if needed). - Idem for height. This way, the left margin is the same than the right margin. That's perhapse not a big issue but it add a *polished* look to KDE ; and god know how about Windows (and MacOS X) is polished, and then more attractive to lambda users. If I still very mysterious I can post screenshots.
I am posting partial screen shots. This would be an improvement IF (and only IF) there were a way to configure the size of the grid. As it is, I wouldn't be able to fit my current fixed icons on my desktop. :-( -- JRT
Created attachment 6846 [details] Upper Left corner of current desktop 3.2.3 This is what I get with KDE-3.2.3 when I use Align to Grid. I note that you need to have short names to get them this close.
Created attachment 6847 [details] Upper Left corner of my test desktop 3.2.91 This would be OK as a default (not good, but OK if we need to allow for long names). HOWEVER, this must be configurable somewhere. With this large vertical spacing, I won't be able to get my left row of directories on the screen. Note: it is perfectly OK with me, that when using the grid, that long names might overlap the icon below.
An option needs to exist to configure the spacing. If possible, it should be worked into the configuration GUI for the desktop. The spacing of the grid should be able to be controlled by the user at some level.
Agreed, this should be an item in the Advanced page that is available in the config GUI.
I think it's simply overconfigurability to be able to configure this. If the spacing is too much, it should auto-adjust based on the font and icon size. If it were made configurable, three years down the road, people are going to wonder why the hell it was made configurable.
Re: Comment #9 The spacing *is* set automatically in KDE 3.2.x. This causes problems. If you add a new file with a long name, the spacing is changed and your desktop layout is screwed. So, this was changed to fixed spacing for 3.3.0. But, if it is going to be fixed, then it needs to be configurable. It could be automatic like it was with a place to lock it, or it could simply have a spinbox for H and V in the: "Advanced" tab somewhere. Perhaps both features are a good idea. However, the vertical spacing in the Betas is twice what I have in my current installation and this simply will not work. -- JRT
Please consider changing back to the 3.2 spacing style or make it configurable. As it is my desktop is a mess with only 4 icons available verticaly and I use a lot of icons (shortcuts) on my desktop. If 3.3 is released as is, this will be a VERY unpopular feature (bug). Sal
It's too late for KDE 3.3 Final now. Maybe this report will get a lot more votes when Final is out.
This new behaviour is a real PITA, maybe adding gui config would be a real overconfigurability. But just make a sane default, not this mega wide spacing ;)
I agree to add a gui config PCLinux
I hate to throw the "W" word in here, but it's a feature in Windows and it's not overconfigurability. Besides, I was told that earlier releases of KDE had the option to configure the icon spacing. I could have lived with the spacing in 3.2, but this new spacing is just rediculous. I'd rather be able to set my own values. How can that be "overconfigurability"? It's 2 values, X and Y. No big deal.
> Maybe this report will get a lot more votes when Final is out. Maybe? :-D If it's true we only have 4 rows of icons it WILL! And I have very big icons on my desktop, I have currently 7 rows. Could be a problem...
I agree with the previous comments that icon spacing is far too wide if you choose the 'Align to Grid' entry in the desktop menu. If you choose 'Line Up Horizontally' or 'Line Up Vertically' then icon spacing is nice as it is has been in KDE 3.2, however, now the icons are sorted automatically in an unforseeable way. So the user has no chance to create an icon arrangement of his own choice. The 'Align to Grid' behaviour of KDE 3.2 was very satisfactory, why not keep it as it was? Additionally, configurability of icon spacing seems like a nice thing to have.
I suggested that it would be OK to just let long file names overlap the icon below. It was suggested on the kde mailing list that rather than doing that that the file names be shortened to the appropriate number of lines and ellipsis "..." be added to the end of the name indicating that it was longer. I presume that this would be best if the whole name showed up when you placed the mouse pointer over the icon. -- JRT
well, I'd say that's very sane behaviour. exactly how one whould expect it...
I would vote for the last solution in #18 as it does indeed seem (as #19 sayd) to be the most sane way of doing it. Wether or not there should be an option for the spacing would become a non-issue if horizontal spacing was set to scale to icon size + two lines of text. I would suggest having a smaller vertical spacing (maybe width of m so that this also scales with font size?). This way it would not be nessecary to add an option, because the need would not be there to begin with. Just my € 0.02 there ;)
Icon positions should be completeley configurable if you want them close then so be it if you want them wide likewise , Personaly i want them CLOSE in the move from 3.2 to 3.3 beta2 the spacing changed and it is infuriating to far appart Re Comment #9 you can never have too much configurability you can on the other hand have nowhere near enough configuration ie windoZe ect ..
#18's suggestion seems best. I hate it when grid spacing changes because I dump a file with a long name on the desktop, so it should be the same, as it appears now to be. But it just shouldn't be so widely spaced.. Limiting the amount of the filename shown, but having it show up on mouseover as 18 suggested seems the best way to do that. Consistent, relatively close spacing, with an easy way to see the whole filename
In 3.2, the spacing is bad because it constantly changes. And even if it wouldn't, it's still not good IMHO. I have three files on my desktop at the moment, and the labels could very well belong to the icons below them, because the spacing is about equal (in fact, I think the space below the labels is even less than above them). Of course, one can find out to which icon a certain label belongs by looking at any file at the top of the screen (not seeing a label above them), but that's not intuitive. That said, the screenshot of 3.3 is the exact opposite. There is too much space. I wouldn't mind too much though, since I rarely have more than a couple of files on my KDE desk, but some people I know seem to love having their desktop filled with files. Please don't revert to the way 3.2 handles the layout, but make a compromise which is acceptable to most people. Then, we can always decide whether it should be configurable.
I was about to report this bug, but apparently others have found the same thing. I was greatly disappointed when I upgraded to KDE 3.3.0 final from KDE 3.2.2 yesterday only to find that I have these huge spaces between my desktop icons! This bug goes back to April and it's so glaring, why hasn't it been fixed? If this was by design, it was a misfeature. Of course I've always had problems with my desktop settings. For instance, my fonts on the desktop render much smaller than those in my applications. This problem goes back to much earlier versions of KDE. And then there is this align to grid feature. GNOME does a great job in this regard. Would someone please look at their grid behavior and try to mimic that?
I propose that KDE offer both. Have it selectable in the Control Center to use dynamic or static spacing, and make static spacing user adjustable using X and Y values. I'm alright if they want to make the dynamic spacing default, as long as I'm able to change it myself. Also, I propose that KDE allow the icon names to be allowed to wrap over other icons, temporarily truncating the text until the user hovers the mouse over the icon, or something similar. It makes no sense to me to force icon spacing based on the icon's text. On some distros, they put these icons on your desktop like "My Computer" crap, only allowing root to change the name, so you have to jump through hoops, particularly if you just have an account on a workstation you don't maintain, to rename it to get acceptable spacing. This is rediculous... This is so basic. Why is this even an issue, and a major one at that? Fix it, and let the user decide. After all, isn't OSS, FSF, GPL, and Linux all about choice?
Another vote for: 1) Decrease the default vertical spacing by about 50%--it's doubtful any users would ever want that much spacing 2) Make icon horizontal and vertical spacing configurable, just in case a user wants more (or less) spacing 3) Truncate long filenames with ellipses so that they fit in the grid 4) Do NOT revert to 3.2 behavior which changed the grid haphazardly and shuffled your desktop icons around!
Another vote here for just making it configurable. One size doesn't fit it all, and what makes sense to one person doesn't make sense to another. Just set the grid to what it is in KDE 3.3 as a default in upcoming versions if you think it is a good thing - but please let me change it in a comfortable way. Don't try to force the user to something _you_ think is best for him. One thing I like about KDE is the freedom of choice, it's easy and wide possibilities to configure everything. What's the big deal? I used to have my icons "grouped", because this made sense to _me_: http://www.basquiat.de/gallery/album01/kde323aug04 Now my dekstop just looks broken to me, as there is no way to group the icons anymore because the vertical alignment is too big: http://www.basquiat.de/kde33.png (huge picture, 1600x1200) That said - thanks for your excellent work on KDE. It's astonishing to see how good this project is coordinated, and I really do enjoy all the improvements of the new release. Thumbs up!
I absolutely/totally agree with the above comments: I really love KDE, but I cannot bare the new behaviour concerning the spacing of the icons upon selecting the align to grid option! It renders my entire desktop awfully bad and I really hate the way now icons are scattered around my entire desktop! I used to love the previous behaviour. But in any case I also agree that both dynamic and static spacing be made available in the Control Center, and make static spacing user adjustable using X and Y values. I also have no problem if dynamic spacing is made to default, as long as I'm able to change it myself. Once again I would like to express my deep love for the KDE project in its entirety!
Kludge fix department: With some help from Waldo, I have mostly hacked this on 3.3 BRANCH. In the file: kdebase/libkonq/konq_iconviewwidget.cc [line 1026 & 1027] *dy = textHeight + 2 + QMAX( iconSize + d->desktopGridSpacing.y(), previewSize ); Remove these two lines and replace with a numerical value like: *dy = 60; Unfortunately, this results in a new bug. The spacing between the top and 2nd row is wrong, but at least it is usable this way. -- JRT
Dear James Richard Tyrer, I would deeply like to thank you for your immediate response! This very attitude is among the things that make the OSS community and the KDE family in particular thrive! The change that you propose is certainly small, subtle and trivial but I happen to use the binary (rpm) files that SuSE (my distribution) provides. I think it is hightime I started messing around with the source code itself. In any case, I really appreciate your concern and I feel fully indebted. Best regards, Nassos Kourentas On Tuesday 24 August 2004 09:22 am, James Richard Tyrer wrote: > ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- > You are a voter for the bug, or are watching someone who is. > > http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79932 > > > > > ------- Additional Comments From tyrerj acm org 2004-08-24 08:22 ------- > Kludge fix department: > > With some help from Waldo, I have mostly hacked this on 3.3 BRANCH. > > In the file: kdebase/libkonq/konq_iconviewwidget.cc [line 1026 & 1027] > > *dy = textHeight + 2 + > QMAX( iconSize + d->desktopGridSpacing.y(), previewSize ); > > Remove these two lines and replace with a numerical value like: > > *dy = 60; > > Unfortunately, this results in a new bug. The spacing between the top and > 2nd row is wrong, but at least it is usable this way. > > -- > JRT
I got my kludge implemented and now I am using 3.3.0 since my icons will now fit on my desktop. I found that there is another problem. Although I am using only 9 pixel type for the icon labels, I still had to go to 72 pixels for 'dy' as compared to about 60 (possibly 58) that was automatically set on 3.2.3. IMHO, the text is spaced too far apart vertically. See attached. 7 pixels from the bottom of the icon to the top of the text has not changed from 3.2.3 but it does seem a bit large even allowing for the fact that the icon (32x32) is allowed two extra pixels for a shadow. But, 7 pixels of leading is a lot too much. I would think that 2 pixels would be sufficient for 9 pixel type, this should probably be proportional for larger type. -- JRT
Created attachment 7286 [details] Upper Left corner of my test desktop 3.3.0 This is with dy = 72 -- JRT
I would also like to add my vote to the configurable approach. May I also suggest that when the fix is avaialble, it be released as a seperate patch against 3.3.0, so we can apply it to the current system. This is really the only major UI issue with 3.3.
You can also modify the spacing in your ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals file... just add the line DesktopGridSpacing=x,y in the [DesktopIcons] section... This minimizes the spacing (Good Thing (TM)) - BUT, after a reboot it tend to rearrange my icons... (moving some of them up) not sure if this is just a question of finding the right x,y - but for me this is a Bad Thing (TM) Morten
What were the default values in KDE 3.2 for x and y? It's a very bad bug!! You should have kept the settings from kde 3.2!
There is also GridXSpacing=[number here] in [DesktopIcons] section of ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals It gladly takes the GridXSpacing= value, but does not have and completely ignores, if entered, GridYSpacing= Am I spelling it wrong?
Re: Comment #36: "GridYSpacing=" was never in the code and: "GridXSpacing=" has been deprecated in the BRANCH. If you have 3.3 BRANCH from CVS, you can use: "DesktopGridSpacing=x,y" as stated in Comment #34. Note that the default value is: "QPoint( 55, 15 )", so there is some question as to exactly how this works. Save a copy of: "~/.kde/share/apps/kdesktop/IconPositions" before you experiment. If you screw up, turn off: "Icons -> Align to Grid", close your Xsession, restore this file from the console and then restart KDE, and your icons should be back to where they were. -- JRT
So, it appears that this is somewhat fixed in 3.3 BRANCH from CVS. If you use: "DesktopGridSpacing=" you can set the grid spacing, but I am going to leave this open till there is a place in the Control Center to set this. -- JRT
Fixed configurable grid is the way forward for me. Elipses and mouse over completion is fine. Add this as an option, since that's what KDE is about. Which do you want? overconfigurabililty or windoze freaks laughing at you?! It's not overconfigurabililty any how, better to have it and not use it. To me KDE3.2 was fine. I used the align vertical and it worked fine for me. I have a 1920x1200 screen and it looks like 640x480 now (8 icons high by about 20 icons width, it's a joke!). Don't make me reach for the XP installation CDs! Graham.
What is this 'overconfigurability' crap, anyway? Linux is about CHOICE. I choose to set my own values for the icon spacing, so why can't I do it via the Control Center?
I wonder if 79932 will get as famous as 911 over the years
hahaha From Mathieu Jobin 2004-09-10 00:41 ------- I wonder if 79932 will get as famous as 911 over the years brilliant :D its not overconfigurability... theres a setting you can change already, isnt that enough? you change it once to something like, DesktopGridSpacing=60,10 ,and you leave it alone. if anything, just make a link from your K menu to ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals. 2 e-z.
El Viernes, 10 de Septiembre de 2004 03:10, Toma escribió: > ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- > You are a voter for the bug, or are watching someone who is. > > http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79932 > > > > > ------- Additional Comments From haste ii net 2004-09-10 03:10 ------- > hahaha > From Mathieu Jobin 2004-09-10 00:41 ------- > I wonder if 79932 will get as famous as 911 over the years > brilliant :D > > its not overconfigurability... theres a setting you can change already, > isnt that enough? you change it once to something like, > DesktopGridSpacing=60,10 ,and you leave it alone. if anything, just make a > link from your K menu to ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals. 2 e-z. As I once read about KDE and usability, developers tend to make software for developers. The problem is the conflict between the ones who want to leave the default setting and those who need to have everything under control (I belong to the latter ;) ). Why not adding this option to the Advanced settings dialog for Background configuration?
> Why not adding this option to the Advanced > settings dialog for Background configuration? Supported. This would be the right place. In general, the configurability as such is one of main things I enjoy in Linux (after windows and some other worlds :)
I really don't know what to add, other than my support for resolution of this bug... what most people seem to be thinking would be an adequate solution, I agree with.
i hate this bug enough to fix it...I'll see what I can come up with
Loaded the new KDE 3.3.1 today. I was very disappointed to find that there was no fix to this bug in the latest update. Configuration options would be nice but I would be just as happy if you would just fall back to the 3.2.3 & earlier grid setup. This is a mess, Thanks, Sal
What more could be said. I love KDE as a whole, so thanks for the good work. That said this must have been a mistake. The icon spacing makes the desktop look horrible and I loose half of my space. Please make it configurable in an 'easy to use manner'. Having glanced through all the comments so far the basic theme of how to fix this from a user perspective seems pretty clear. Thanks, Andrew.
just the way you cut file names with "..." this is really bad, especially there is no way to view the full name.
Re: Comment #49 I regard the shortened file names as a necessary feature. What is needed is a way to see the whole file name and to configure the number of lines shown. Note that if you set a large number of lines that it would have the effect of turning this feature off. Both of these features are available when using KFM and the DeskTop should also have them. -- JRT
"Loaded the new KDE 3.3.1 today. I was very disappointed to find that there was no fix to this bug in the latest update. Configuration options would be nice but I would be just as happy if you would just fall back to the 3.2.3 & earlier grid setup. This is a mess, Thanks, Sal" I think this bug's been fixed in KDE 3.3.1 After I updated KDE to 3.3.1, this bug no longer exists.
I have filled a bug which is related, which is a request to be able to lock icon placement schemes, and to store desktop profile information on a per resolution basis : see http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92789
running KDE 3.3.1 from compiled (default) sources and this bug still exists. @ Simon Yuan from comment #51, Did you compile yourself or was this a distro's version?
YES, this bug still exists. I hope someone is working to fix it in 3.3.2. IMHO the grid setup for 3.2 was just fine. Sal
*** Bug 84733 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 85922 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Created attachment 8423 [details] icon in the corner this show another problem with icon placement, this file has been placed automaticaly, when I saved the file to the desktop. this is so wrong.... even when "align to grid" is disabled, a better position should be taken.
yes, this happens quite often. sometimes all icons try to disappear under the top kicker...
CVS commit by mkoller: FEATURE: 79932 GUI: make number of icon text lines on desktop configurable M +10 -0 bgadvanced.cpp 1.18 M +2 -0 bgadvanced.h 1.8 M +74 -46 bgadvanced_ui.ui 1.16 M +2 -0 bgdialog.cpp 1.51 M +10 -0 bgsettings.cpp 1.20 M +4 -0 bgsettings.h 1.30
My commit does not really solve the original reported problem (but the cvs commit script automagically closed this report). Even though in current CVS (3.4 HEAD) I do not see the problem with the too wide desktop grid. If any of the reporters could check if CVS HEAD really solved this problem, and if not, reopen this issue, that would be fine.
not fixed.
Well that is really too bad. I thought I could look forward to this ugly bug being fixed in 3.3, Please someone, just set things bad to the grid setup of 3.2.3
Sal, the 3.2.3 behaviour was not ideal. If all the files on the desktop has short names, and you saved one witha really long name, desktop spacing changed. That just shouldn't happen. It really is fine as it is now, see above for the comment regarding DesktopGridSpacing=x,y . That method lets you set spacing to whatever you like. Of course, having it in a GUI somewhere would be nice, but its workable anyway.
Jason. I know what your saying about 3.2.3 not being ideal, but I just renamed all my desktop icons to a short one line name so I avoided that problem. But to say it is fine now ignores all the comments to this bug and over 1800 votes to fix it. I am using the DesktopGridSpacing hack but even after long trials with different numbers still can't get my icons near as close together as they were in 3.2 And is this hack what we expect Joe User to do when he finds 16 icons cover his whole desktop? We need to find a better solution! I hate to use the M word here but WinXP has a much better handle on how to handle grid spacing and long icon names. We need to get this under control and not have our icons behaving as they are. Sal
I honestly think that KDE should default to 3.2 settings for icon spacing, yet allow the option to manually set the vertical and horizontal spacing as a fixed number. That way, those that liked the 3.2 dynamic spacing can have it, and those that just want to set a fixed number can have that too. How hard is it?
Re: comment #66 Yes, this would be best. If we has the automatic spacing unless the user chose a fixed value. The user should be able to set that fixed value with a GUI in the Control Center and perhaps from the DeskTop context menu. > How hard is it? That is a good question. I don't know how hard it would be to implement this. Lacking the choice for automatic or manual control, it appears to me that this is now a feature request for a GUI to set the fixed spacing and it is being changed to that. I hope that that is OK with everybody. Re: Comment #60 Thanks to Martin Koller who also fixed another minor bug with the horizontal spacing perhaps without realizing that he did it. -- JRT
I have now a solution for this problem (sent already the patch to core-devel) with the following mechanism: The user can already define the icon size he likes to have. He can also select the font he wants to have on the desktop. With my previous patch, he now also can select how many lines of text he wants to have. But what is missing, is the possibility to select how _wide_ the text can be. With this setting, we have all information to calculate a good fixed size grid. The width can be defined in kcontrol in the background/advanced dialog (same as the text lines) This is a better solution than simply define a fixed size for the grid, because with my approach you can simply play around with different icon sizes and font sizes, and you still get a good grid. If there is no objection from core-devels, you'll see this solution in 3.4
JRT: don't change this again, it's an actual bug, which I intending on fixing when i have time.
It'll be fixed in KDE 3.4
Well, folks, you use your best judgment but you can't always please everybody. This bug will be replaced by: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94126 which is a feature request (WishList) for further (on topic please) comments. To use the automatic features of Bugzilla, this will be reopened and then marked as a duplicate. -- JRT
*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 94126 ***
Bug closed. Kdesktop is no more mantained.