Version: 1.5.93 (using KDE 3.1.93 (CVS >= 20031028), compiled sources) Compiler: gcc version 3.3.1 OS: Linux (i686) release 2.4.23-pre7 I have a lot of mails, which are not threaded by kmail. Example: all of the bugreport mails from bugs.kde.org. I'm using CVS from 7.11.2003
Subject: Re: New: Thread messages also by subject does not work On Sunday 09 November 2003 10:42, Andreas Hartmann wrote: > I have a lot of mails, which are not threaded by kmail. > Example: all of the bugreport mails from bugs.kde.org. Only messages which are prefixed with one of the (configurable) reply prefixes such as Re:, FWD: or whatever are threaded by subject. Since the bug mails start with [Bug 12345], they are not. That is intentional and not a bug, in my opinion, as subject threading is only an attempt to fix missing In-Reply-To and Referenes headers and not something that should unconditionally thread together messages with the same subject. A reply to a bug mail (and only those should be threaded below it) should have a valid In-Reply-To header, but if someone adds a comment to a bug report, that is not a reply to the original bug mail. If you want to group thhose messages together maybe you should sort by subject instead? Apart from that, if you have a concrete example (mbox or screenshot) of a group of messages that is not threaded correctly in your opinion please attach it to this bug report. I'll happily look into it. Till
Subject: Re: Thread messages also by subject does not work Till Adam wrote: [...] > Only messages which are prefixed with one of the (configurable) reply prefixes > such as Re:, FWD: or whatever are threaded by subject. Since the bug mails > start with [Bug 12345], they are not. That is intentional and not a bug, in > my opinion, as subject threading is only an attempt to fix missing > In-Reply-To and Referenes headers and not something that should > unconditionally thread together messages with the same subject. A reply to a > bug mail (and only those should be threaded below it) should have a valid > In-Reply-To header, but if someone adds a comment to a bug report, that is > not a reply to the original bug mail. If you want to group thhose messages > together maybe you should sort by subject instead? Well - this does not work, because it seems to need a Re or something else, which seems to be stripped by bugs.kde.org. Or it's just broken. Why is this no problem with mozilla? Regards, Andreas Hartmann
Subject: Re: Thread messages also by subject does not work On Monday 10 November 2003 16:37, Andreas Hartmann wrote: > Till Adam wrote: > > [...] > > > Only messages which are prefixed with one of the (configurable) reply > > prefixes such as Re:, FWD: or whatever are threaded by subject. Since the > > bug mails start with [Bug 12345], they are not. That is intentional and > > not a bug, in my opinion, as subject threading is only an attempt to fix > > missing In-Reply-To and Referenes headers and not something that should > > unconditionally thread together messages with the same subject. A reply > > to a bug mail (and only those should be threaded below it) should have a > > valid In-Reply-To header, but if someone adds a comment to a bug report, > > that is not a reply to the original bug mail. If you want to group thhose > > messages together maybe you should sort by subject instead? > > Well - this does not work, because it seems to need a Re or something > else, which seems to be stripped by bugs.kde.org. Or it's just broken. Define "it". Are you talking about a reply to the mail on the mailing list, as in someone hits reply and sends mail to kmail@kde.org, or are you referring to a comment to a bug, wich happens to produce an email to the list as well. the first case looks like this: [Bug: 12323] Something is broken | -> Re: [Bug: 12323] Something is broken and should be threaded like this both by headers and, failing that, by subject. The other case looks like this: [Bug: 12323] Something is broken [Bug: 12323] Something is broken the second being a mail generated to the list by bugs.kde.org after someone has added a comment to a bug. Those are not threaded by headers ( because they have no parent/child relation) and not by subject, because one is not a reply to the other (no Re: or similar prefix as an indication of that). > Why is this no problem with mozilla? If mozilla threads the later case like this: [Bug: 12323] Something is broken | -> [Bug: 12323] Something is broken then I consider it's subject threading algorithm broken. :) Again, a test case (mailbox, screenshot) clearly showing the case which you think is threaded wrongly would help a lot. Till
Subject: Re: Thread messages also by subject does not work Hello Till, at first, thank you very much for your detailed mail! Till Adam wrote: [...] > The other case looks like this: > > [Bug: 12323] Something is broken > [Bug: 12323] Something is broken > > the second being a mail generated to the list by bugs.kde.org after someone > has added a comment to a bug. Those are not threaded by headers ( because > they have no parent/child relation) and not by subject, because one is not a > reply to the other (no Re: or similar prefix as an indication of that). This is the problem. Meanwhile, I know, it depends on the prefix. But I think, this should not depend on the prefix, because it's very painfull to have messages, which belong obviously together, are listed as "new thread". It's like lotus notes does it all the time. If you have the choice like in kmail, to sort by subjects - please sort the mails really by subject, even if there is no prefix. You could do this with one more options, which could be activated if people like me wants to have it (or did I oversee this switch?). >>Why is this no problem with mozilla? > > > If mozilla threads the later case like this: > > [Bug: 12323] Something is broken > | > -> [Bug: 12323] Something is broken > > then I consider it's subject threading algorithm broken. :) Yes. That's the way, mozilla does it. This is, why I'm using it. You may consider it a bug - I'm happy to have it, because it's much more easy to survey, to have same subjects as a thread. It's just user friendly. > Again, a test case (mailbox, screenshot) clearly showing the case which you > think is threaded wrongly would help a lot. I hope, it's clear now :-). Regards, Andreas Hartmann
Subject: Re: Thread messages also by subject does not work On Tuesday 11 November 2003 05:29, Andreas Hartmann wrote: [snip] > This is the problem. Meanwhile, I know, it depends on the prefix. But I > think, this should not depend on the prefix, because it's very painfull to > have messages, which belong obviously together, are listed as "new > thread". It's like lotus notes does it all the time. Yes, it is, that's why I implemented subject threading in the first place ;). But, and that is a big but: "messages which belong obviously together" leaves a lot of wiggle room. In general, messages with the same subject do _not_ obviously belong together. Try opening the kde-cvs list with mozilla, for example, there are only maybe twenty different subjects in that folder, and the mails are not related at all. Bug report mails are a bit special in that they do indeed belong to the same bug, but that is a grouping well outside of the mail folder and should not be represented by threading. Sorting is the right way to do that, and you can sort by subject just fine. > If you have the choice like in kmail, to sort by subjects - please sort > the mails really by subject, even if there is no prefix. You could do this > with one more options, which could be activated if people like me wants to > have it (or did I oversee this switch?). You are confusing sorting and threading. Sorting by subject is and always was possible. _threading_ by subject brings mail into a hierarchical view based on parent/child relationships that can be deduced from several factors. One of those factors being prefixes. Again, the bug mails are not threaded because they are not children of each other. > You may consider it a bug - I'm happy to have it, because it's much more > easy to survey, to have same subjects as a thread. It's just user friendly. Use sorting or search folders. Threading is the wrong tool for the job. > I hope, it's clear now :-). It is. Still I'll close this bug report as WONTFIX because we (at least I) will not implement the behavior you want, as I consider it broken. The subject threading algorithm used in kmail is rather conservative and I think that is a good thing. If you think otherwise and it's important to you, you'll have to live with Mozilla, I'm afraid. Till
I just want to add that there's wish 41889 (group mails by subject or sender). So actually Andreas' bug report is a duplicate of this wish.
Created attachment 21319 [details] Screenshot example Just a quick screen shot
Whoops, I put the screenshot in the last comment. I'm glad to see that this bug/feature request was already asked for. I completely understand where Till is coming from, we don't want to have a completely lax matching algorithm which contains a lot of false positives for Threading by Subject. But I think that it is worth noting that it seems to be standard for other applications to thread by subject where it does not match RE: or FW: as a starting string. In particular Thunderbird works like this. One thing that Till does bring up is that we don't want to match two threads that have the same subject but are actually different. But one flaw that I see with Till's argument is that his implimentation won't work in these cases anyway. For example, if we had four emails like this, the RE's would most likely be matched wrong anyway: Subject: A Subject: RE: A Subject: A Subject: RE: A I think that it be fair to note, that if anyone is running the "Threading by Subject" they would be aware that false positives are possible. At anyrate, have a quick look at the screenshot that I sent in and see how our groupware sends out messages: "[EW subscription] Followup on <site> Slip 22322" So when we get 50+ emails a day with slips spreading over weeks, it become difficult to follow what happens. Matt