Version: 1.4.3 (using KDE 3.0.3) Installed from: Mandrake Linux Cooker i586 - Cooker Compiler: gcc version 3.2 (Mandrake Linux 9.0 3.2-1mdk) OS: Linux (i686) release 2.4.19-16mdk The default location for the mail forder is currently ~/Mail. I think it should be changed to .mail or .Mail or anything else that is hidden. That would enable users to keep a clean ~/ folder.
Subject: Re: New: kmail's Mail folder should be hidden ~/Mail is used by a lot of MUAs. Others use ~/Maildir or ~/nsmail. I don't know a MUA that uses a hidden folder. The FAQ describes how to change the folder where KMail stores the mail. People who want ~/.Mail can simply follow the instructions presented in the FAQ.
Well, "everybody deos it the bad way" isn't a smart answer to my wish. Sorry but every desktop uses double-click and KDE uses single-click. That's an example of smart decision from kde develeopers over other DE's developer. Can't you just do what seems the most logical in this case too ?
The advantage of having it somewhere obvious is that you know where your email is stored. If you changed MUA you could find your email quickly and probably your new MUA would automatically import it. I am pleased to find that imap folders are not stored there, but under ~/.kde, which would have been my only reason for having a hidden folder. Consider this a vote for keeping the bug closed.
Maybe adding an "export mail" function would be a solution for the problem of changing your MUA. For normal users, the Mail folder is nothing but a folder that contains awkward files. It doesn't help "normal" users in anyway. But it can make them angry if they remove their Mail folder accidently by selecting it accidently in a file manager...
This is all based on a misconception. "Mail" isn't used for mail folders. it's "mail", and above all the IMAP folders are stored in "mail". And so KMail is wrong at that.
Look, if you use Netscape Messenger or Outlook Express, and you create a folder, it goes into mail/. It helps users. I can back up my mail by dragging and dropping the folder, instead of looking in arcane places. Plus, just as MP3s are in MP3 format, my mail files are in RFC 822 format, and it's user data. Which I should be able to see. Application data, that can be hidden.
Manuel, You appear to be using UW IMAP server. This stores subfolders in ~/mail.
AND pine. Pine is rather popular. And the UW imap daemon is the default choice for most Linux distributions. So you could safely say that the majority of users use mail, not Mail, as their folder haven. Furthermore, KMail should be smart enough to find mail instead of Mail and use that. Or are you suggesting that users of Kmail should beg their admin to change their IMAP server and patch all of the other mail software to pick up Mail instead of mail? I have the feeling it should be the other way. I propose further change. Mail (or mail, or whatever mail folder name it is) should only keep mail folders. Indexes and stuff should be kept separate, in a hidden folder or KMail's configuration folder (which happens to be hidden too). That way we separate application data (indexes) and user data.
The location of your maildir has nothing to do with the location an imap-server stores it's information in. This is an internal of the server-software. This report is only targeted at local folders.
Yes. But both directories store the same data. Why not unify them, and FOLLOW the most used folder? Or at least detect whether it exists and adopt it.
Subject: Re: kmail's Mail folder should be hidden On Tuesday 03 December 2002 18:41, Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote: > Yes. But both directories store the same data. Why not > unify them, and FOLLOW the most used folder? Or at least detect > whether it exists and adopt it. Because KMail doesn't work well together with other MUAs. Therefore KMail shouldn't mess with the other MUAs mail folders and the other MUAs must not mess with KMail's mail folders. About separating index files and mail folders: Currently to backup your mail (including all index files) you simply backup ~/Mail. If we stored the index files somewhere else the user would have to backup two or more directories. As KMail's index files are hidden they should be ignored by all other MUAs and therefore it's no problem that they stored together with the message data in ~/Mail. About ~/mail or ~/Mail: Face it. Different MUAs use different directories to store the mail. Netscape (<= 4.x) used ~/nsmail and another folder for IMAP, Netscape (>= 6.0) uses ?, Mozilla uses ~/mozmail (?), KMail used to use ~/KMail and now uses ~/Mail, Sylpheed also uses ~/Mail, some MUAs seem to use ~/Maildir, a.s.o.a.s.f. There will never be a standard folder for mail. One reason is probably that most MUAs don't like it when other MUAs mess with their files.
The way I see it, mail is mail, and I should be able to read my mail with minimal effort using the MUA I please. Files which aren't mail don't belong in the mail folder. The fact that everyone does it wrong doesn't prevent KMail from doing the right thing, which is IMO detecting if there's a mail or Mail folder and beginning to use it. KMail could set the example, and others could follow. Or not. But what matters is that KMail gets it right. About index files. They aren't mail. They don't belong in Mail and they can be regenerated when a backup is restored. They can be safely thrown away if a user so chooses. So why put them in mail. A simple criteria: is it mail? Then off to the Mail folder. Is it NOT mail? then to another folder.
Please understand that this bug is marked as wontfix. Your wish won't be implemented. There's no need to add more comments that just repeat old arguments.
Well, as nobody convinced me I was wrong, I re-open it. Of course, you can close it again but that won't FIX the bug, that will only HIDE it.
You should have actually looked at the status this bug had - it was "WONTFIX", not "FIXED". And just because you are the only one who isn't convinced you were wrong, it's still arrogant to simply reopen this bug report against the consensus of the KMail developers. Please don't do so again. And if this really annoys you, you can simply change the location of your mail folder in your kmailrc - why don't you just do that instead of wasting your and our time?
Subject: Re: kmail's Mail folder should be hidden I'm not the only one. That's why I re-opened it. Le Mercredi 4 D
Subject: Re: kmail's Mail folder should be hidden On Wednesday 04 December 2002 17:59, julo@altern.org wrote: > I'm not the only one. That's why I re-opened it. No KMail developer agreed. I hope that you see they are the ones who decide.
Magnus: because KMail gets it wrong by default. Why don't you really fix it instead of asking everyone else to hack workarounds? Yep. I'm convinced it won't be fixed. You only know how to hack and have no notion of software quality. You haven't got the faintest idea of how to process a bug. You didn't like it, you marked it as WONTFIX, with no justification. That sucks. That sucks so much, if someone were to implement a patch, I'm sure you'd reject it because you don't like it. That's no justification from a software quality point of view.
Subject: Re: kmail's Mail folder should be hidden On Wednesday 04 December 2002 18:09, Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote: > Yep. I'm convinced it won't be fixed. You only know how to hack > and have no notion of software quality. You haven't got the > faintest idea of how to process a bug. You didn't like it, you > marked it as WONTFIX, with no justification. That sucks. I'm sorry you got that impression but it is not correct. Please take the time to read throught the comments for this bug and you will see that Ingo Kloecker did offer an explanation why this won't be changed. It's just that you and Ingo have different priorities - you simply can't agree, even after exchanging all arguments. It's not true that the KMail developers offered no explanation. So please don't say stuff like this. Maybe you should try to talk to Microsoft and convince them to change the location of the mail folders in Outlook - I wish you good luck. Probably, they won't even answer. > That > sucks so much, if someone were to implement a patch, I'm sure you'd > reject it because you don't like it. That's no justification from > a software quality point of view. Saying this is a bad idea, with all the explanation from Ingo (who is KMail's maintainer) is more than enough reason to reject a patch. If the KMail developers were to accept any random patch that is submitted, KMail wouldn't work as good as it does. What makes me angry is that "julo@altern.org" simply reopened the bug report without convincing the KMail developers. I feel he didn't offer reasonable explanation and he should accept that the ultimate decision about whose arguments are more important should be left to the KMail developers, specifically it's maintainer. Oh, this email I'm answering to was in a very non-technical, emotional and offensive style that is not at all productive for this discussion. Maybe you should rather try to find new arguments for your proposal if this is really so important for you.
I see kmail now stores mail in a directory beneath .kde That's a great idea. Thanks. Sorry for the callousness back in the day. You guys are doing a great job and KMail is absolutely my mail client of choice.