Version: (using KDE 4.0.82) Installed from: Ubuntu Packages Because current way is "cool" but it is a killer for any handicapped person, or even with mild disabilities. KDE users are not Doom/Quake experts who can pinpoint 3x3 pixels widget, drag it and set up everything. Provide editboxes for position, length settings. Provide options to set height, provide options for setting the "autosize" feature, etc etc.
> killer for any handicapped person, providing a QAccessible for the panel controller will appear (probably in 4.2 though). > Provide editboxes for position, length settings. this, however, won't happen. it's been thoroughly discussed amongst the devel team.
> > Provide editboxes for position, length settings. > this, however, won't happen. it's been thoroughly discussed amongst the > devel team You are serious? What is wrong in setting exactly the panel? Why do I have to base on just estimates? Why I can't do it at my own pace, clicking each time one pixel less/more and fine-tune the environment I use. Aaron, I see that KDE4 is looking (visually) stunning, but look is not everything, I am forced to risk RSI this means the whole design is wrong. Simply put -- allow user to set things up in their way (slowly, without any pressure).
Btw. I don't mean -- put the edit boxes INSTEAD of visual configuring. Add them, then user could drag the mouse and set the with 800-840 pixels (how can you tell?) or set it to 829 _exactly_.
> You are serious? yes. > Aaron, I see that KDE4 is looking (visually) stunning, but look is not > everything, I am forced to risk RSI this means the whole design is wrong. because clicking single pixels is so much better for RSI? hm. anyways, yes, it's been discussed thoroughly and this is the usability approach (direct interaction) that we are taking. it's 03:15 (yes, a.m.) for me here, so i'm not really up to spending the time/energy explaining the whole thing to you personally here. hope you can understand. =/ > Add them yes, i got that =)
I agree with this request. I recently talked to a blind person, which told me about her computer usage, and it was realy interesting. Having a alternative way for people that can't use the computer like most of us do, is a very important thing(and by adding it as a alternative way, it won't hurt anybody, since you can simply ignore it if you want)
> > Aaron, I see that KDE4 is looking (visually) stunning, but look is not > everything, I am forced to risk RSI this means the whole design is wrong. > because clicking single pixels is so much better for RSI? One question -- do you have RSI? I have. It is much better for me, to click inside the first tab, enter value, 100, press tab, enter value 80, and press enter. Voila, configuring finished. Please, measure my time and effort. Minimal! Now compare this to current UI, I have to pinpoint this small triangle, oh, wait, not that one, this one, press and _hold_ the LMB for the whole time (pain for RSI), move the mouse holding LMB, and release it. Oh, no, my hand just was shaking a bit, so I have to repeat it, the panel is too narrow, and so on. You can't beat the direct input in terms of a11y. No matter how you will try. Because user does not have to hold anything for longer period of time, nothing is depended of his/her skills/reflexes/muscles/accuracy. Edit box has clear precise meaning, and it is a healthy way providing any input. Btw. other users will benefit too -- because they could drag the triangles and see what the width is (numeric value), so they could set the estimate for width, and then fine tune the value. > it's 03:15 (yes, a.m.) Ok, no problem. Go to sleep, we'll talk later :-) A11Y TEST: provide slider and editbox: ask older, young, healthy, handicapped people to enter value 1584 using slider and then edit-box.
@Beat, could point -- editbox can have means to be edited by blind person, moving mouse cursor around the screen is quite a challenge (I don't know if it is possible at all: to interact in such way).
The blind person was just a example, i think bild people don't realy care about their panel size ;-) well, i could be wrong. My point was just, that i talked with somebody that uses the computer in a different way than i do, and it was realy interesting, since this are things i as a developer was never thinking about, and it's quite hard to imagine what those people need (for blind persons for example,the computer has to be able to read out all text, navigation with tab and shortcuts, text descibing each picture, flash is bad, because there is no way for the computer to read the button description, so they are navigation realy blindly trough a flash application)
> The blind person was just a example, i think bild people don't realy care > about their panel size ;-) True, but blind person is an extreme, there are people not blind but with various vision impairments. Anyway, thanks for sharing the experience/knowledge with us, I really care about a11y of KDE. Computers are not easy to use, there is no need to make it even harder.
for 4.2 i plan to make it possible to focus and control the configuration items, like the triangles and the edge with the keyboard providing also a visual feedback and probably it will be also possible to "read" the settings with QAccessible.
"Having a alternative way for people that can't use the computer like most of us do" are you familiar with what QAccessible is? it's not like vision impaired people can somehow use a spinbox easily either. the solution is to implement a QAccessible object for the widget (so that a11y hardware and software can interact with it), make the different pieces of it keyboard accessible as well, and then it's accessible. i actually used to be involved with the FSG a11y working group, so i do have a bit of an idea on the topic. =) please trust that we know what we're doing in the technical details. we've heard your request, to make it accessible, and it's on the plans (the keyboard focus work in 4.1 was one part of that progression, with more to come in 4.2). the other request, to add spinboxes and sliders is not something we're interested in doing.
Small remark: I didn't say a word about spinbox and you exactly use version of slider now. I was talking about editboxes all the time. Ok, enough said, I am waiting for 4.2 :-)
Related report: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163060
I am not blind nor do I have RSI. I do however have an immobile right thumb and I cannot make precise mouse adjustments while holding a mouse button. There are are whole range of partial disabilities, personal preferences, and competency levels that the current system does not provide for. In fact, as the OP stated, the current (KDE 4.2 included) way of configuring the panel seems to have been developed for and by those with above-average control of the mouse (Quake experts in his words).
Hello! This feature request was filed for KDE Plasma 4, which reached end-of-support status in August 2015. KDE Plasma 5's desktop shell has been almost completely rewritten for better performance and usability, so it is likely that this feature request is already implemented in Plasma 5, or is no longer applicable. Accordingly, we hope you understand why we must close this feature request. If the requested feature is still desired but not implemented in KDE Plasma 5.12 or later, please feel free to open a new ticket in the "plasmashell" product after reading https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Bug_Reporting If you would like to get involved in KDE's bug triaging effort so that future mass bug closes like this are less likely, please read https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved#Bug_Triaging Thanks for your understanding! Nate Graham