Bug 107509 - Kompmgr: use more/less shadows to illustrate depth ...
Summary: Kompmgr: use more/less shadows to illustrate depth ...
Status: RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug 247462
Alias: None
Product: kwin
Classification: Plasma
Component: compositing (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Platform: unspecified Linux
: NOR wishlist
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: KWin default assignee
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2005-06-16 00:01 UTC by danalien
Modified: 2011-01-29 09:27 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In:


Attachments
screen.capture_-_2004.10.28_-_Xcompmgr_-_Playing.Around.With.Shadows.avi (667.25 KB, video/x-msvideo)
2005-06-16 00:10 UTC, danalien
Details

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Description danalien 2005-06-16 00:01:36 UTC
Version:            (using KDE KDE 3.4.1)
Installed from:    Unlisted Binary Package

A Picture says 1000 words.

Please see attachment: screen.capture_-_2004.10.28_-_Xcompmgr_-_Playing.Around.With.Shadows.avi
Comment 1 danalien 2005-06-16 00:10:59 UTC
Created attachment 11471 [details]
screen.capture_-_2004.10.28_-_Xcompmgr_-_Playing.Around.With.Shadows.avi
Comment 2 danalien 2005-06-16 08:49:28 UTC
btw, if one is interested, I've uploaded the 'source' behind this Vid' to:
http://www.slicker.org/dev/danalien/playground/screen.capture_-_2004.10.28_-_Xcompmgr_-_Playing.Around.With.Shadows.avi.-.source.tar.bz2
Comment 3 danalien 2005-06-17 16:58:42 UTC
Hi,

Awhile ago, I played around with Xcompmgr ... and one thing led to the other [0] ...

The basic/simple idéa was to use 'shadows' to illustrate depth, with (subtly) dynamic-shadows *of sorts*.

That ${Things} closer to the 'desktop/background/wallpaper' have less, and vise versa
with those things that are farther away, more shadow.


Cheers.

---
see also: http://mail.kde.org/pipermail/panel-devel/2005-June/000179.html
Comment 4 danalien 2005-06-18 05:19:04 UTC
uummh, yeah. *crank-it*

I forgot to imply: mplayer -loop 0 ${file}

... and let it loop around awhile, while ${you} ogle at it :-)
Comment 5 Thomas Lübking 2005-06-18 07:38:26 UTC
this'd be easy to implement - i just worry how CPU consuming it will be (changing the window shadow implies an internal recreation/repaint of the whole window) and how irritating the flicker on the screen will be
i've yet not seen the video, but you may describe your personal experiences and maybe top output on doing this on e.g. 10 windows
on the other hand i'm quite satisfied with two shadow sizes (front/back) as from a certain window amount the changes will become *very* subtile and the front window should imho have a much bigger and lighter shadow than the rest
Comment 6 danalien 2005-06-18 13:11:22 UTC
Thomas,

>CPU consuming

yeah, I know what you mean.

but, I'll share something with you, I didn't envision this of being implemented in the current "CPU draws the graphics" scenario, but in the world where it's all shoved down the GPU's throat :-)

>i've yet not seen the video,

plz, do - I won't be buggered to scribble 1000 words :-)
 
>but you may describe your personal experiences and 
>maybe top output on doing this on e.g. 10 windows 

*sorry?* my decoding-chipher melted :-)

/* I got the 1st line, but the 2nd?... */

>and the front window should imho have a much bigger
>and lighter shadow than the rest 

dynamic-soft-shadow--stuff? *right?*

... I think, I did that too? :), to fiddle with the 'intensity' of the shadow somehow. Here's the values I used:
10_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -5 -t -5 -r 5.png
11_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -10 -t -10 -r 10.png
12_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -15 -t -15 -r 15.png
13_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -20 -t -20 -r 20.png
14_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -25 -t -25 -r 25.png
15_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -30 -t -30 -r 30.png
16_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -35 -t -35 -r 35.png
17_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -40 -t -40 -r 40.png
18_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -45 -t -45 -r 45.png
19_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -50 -t -50 -r 50.png
20_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -55 -t -55 -r 55.png
22_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -45 -t -45 -r 45.png
23_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -40 -t -40 -r 40.png
24_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -35 -t -35 -r 35.png
25_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -30 -t -30 -r 30.png
26_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -25 -t -25 -r 25.png
27_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -20 -t -20 -r 20.png
28_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -15 -t -15 -r 15.png
29_-_xcompmgr -cCfF -l -10 -t -10 -r 10.png
Comment 7 Thomas Lübking 2005-06-18 18:15:10 UTC
> but in the world where it's all shoved down the GPU's throat :-)
having GPU power on side would of course be cool, but currently the composite design is far away from Quartz eXtreme - mainly due to the closed source Xserver problem and even not nVidia provides full Render support (while ati afaik still doesn't at all). So the process allways runs through the CPU/cache what e.g. dramatically breaks down if the handled Pixmap overflows the cache (try e.g. 1600x1200x32 on 512kb)

>maybe top output on doing this on e.g. 10 windows 
type top into a shell, you'll see your running processes and some  info, type top -p $(pidof X) and you'll see process behaviour of X, so you can see cpu/mem usage (type man:top into konqui to get much more info ;)

>dynamic-soft-shadow--stuff? *right?* 
yeah, i hacked that times ago onto xcompmgr - kompmgr of course supports it as well (it's based on my hacks on xcompmgr) - if this is all you're requesting, we can close this bug ;)
Comment 8 danalien 2005-06-19 10:47:48 UTC
>mainly due to the closed source Xserver problem

??? - Xorg or XFree86? ... or both? .... and I thought both where fully F/OSS...
or you're just refering to that some gfx_drivers are closed-source? ...


>and even not nVidia provides full Render support..

figured so much.

why I'm more looking at XGI (www.xgitech.com).... even managed to order two
V3's from my local supplier :-)

but, say - would you mind 'hacking' on making some ubergood XGI drivers for
Xorg? ...to lator hack on a *real* 'Quartz eXtreme'-solution for F/OSS?.... if so,
when *those puppies arrive, I could send one board to you =)


>type top into a shell ...

no need, I can tell you, my machine started to chuckle as the shadow grew :-)

>if this is all you're requesting.

No, I'm requesting: "use more/less shadows to illustrate depth"

but, sure, if one would get "dynamic-soft-shadow--stuff" for the price of one,
fine by me =)

Comment 9 Thomas Lübking 2005-06-19 16:02:51 UTC
> ??? - Xorg or XFree86? ... or both? .... and I thought both where fully F/OSS... 
yes they are, (though Xorg came up because XFree was not so much open ;) but the Xserver itself is the "Graphics driver" somehow and though there are open variants, they are hardly usefull for this purpose (at least not nVidia)

> but, say - would you mind 'hacking' on making some ubergood XGI drivers for Xorg?
hardly, i'm not that experienced on X and on top of this, a complete redesign of several X extensions would be necessary. Also there are various things in development - check the X mailing list on this (they depend on GL or render and use various designs - it's a mess... ;)

>No, I'm requesting: "use more/less shadows to illustrate depth"
the problem on this would be visability - sa you want 4px shadows at least and 16 pix shadows at max and active windows shadows twice as big as max inactive. so you have 4px left to illustrate the difference - you hardly will notice anything - having soft wide shadows for active and dense tight shadows for inactive windows is afaik enough - if things would run faster i'd rather modify the windows opacity (so front window is opaque and the rest fades away to 10%)
Comment 10 danalien 2005-06-25 20:55:03 UTC
>it's a mess... ;)

as all things tend to be :-)


>the problem on this would be visability [...]

...well, I'd like not to speculate.  But, the idea is to be subtle, e.g. the user shouldn't consciously notice *this_effect_I_am_requesting - and just be there
for their unconscious minds to grasp :-)


>if things would run faster i'd rather modify the windows opacity
>(so front window is opaque and the rest fades away to 10%) 

well, that's an entirely different effect - and I say why not to *that too,
but why not to *this too? ... and have options to let users enable/disable
what ever they choose :-)



/me for letting people choose...
Comment 11 Frank Roscher 2010-08-12 11:56:20 UTC
*** This bug has been confirmed by popular vote. ***
Comment 12 Martin Flöser 2011-01-29 09:27:03 UTC
Setting as duplicate of the newer bug as we don't have kompmgr anymore.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 247462 ***