Version: (using KDE KDE 3.1.3) Installed from: Debian testing/unstable Packages from a useability point kdm has 4 defficiencies: 1. naming something "menu" is not very useable. its like you write "train" on a train. something like "x-server" would be better, cause this thing helps you control the x-server (stop, restart). 2. it would be nice if it ("menu"?) can be reached with the keyboard, like the session type. 3. "shutdown" is a different thing again: a window opens, and you can select, and something happens. 4. "go!" is the same thing, something happens, but what? maybe call it "login"? so you have 5 functions, login, to console, restart x, shutdown, reboot reachable in a very different way. maybe "login - clear - shutdown" would be sufficient"? and everything is reachable with keyboard. shutdown could containt reboot-shutdown-restart x- shutdown kdm (console login). maybe you also want to call the user field "user" and not "login".
1. no, this is like writing "cookies" on a black box. see, the user does not know that this is a menu button until he reads or tries it. using something more descriptive is impossible given the diversity of the content. 2. WORKSFORME 4."login" does not work out, because the login name label is already called that way. and don't suggest renaming it to "username", as it's only a matter of time till i get the first report of the type "i entered my name 'John Doe' and it didn't let me in". :}
Subject: Re: dropdown "menu" very good naming --- Oswald Buddenhagen <ossi@kde.org> wrote: > ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- > You reported the bug, or are watching the reporter. > > http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=63401 > ------- Additional Comments From ossi@kde.org 2003-08-29 09:24 ------- > 1. no, this is like writing "cookies" on a black box. see, the user does not > know that this is a menu button until he reads or tries it. > using something more descriptive is impossible given the diversity of the content. no, this is more like "box" on a black box ... cookies says something about the content, and menu does not. apropos diversity: stop xserver, restart xserver? aehm .... yes. > > 2. WORKSFORME i was blind: alt-m works (if you are happy and the alt-key works). but you can't do it with tab and cursor keys, or tab and return, like for session type or shutdown. if you misconfigured the xserver, getting into your cookies and reach console login is the only way out (except getting to another computer and do it via network) :) > > 4."login" does not work out, because the login name label is already called that > way. and don't suggest renaming it to "username", as it's only a matter of time > till i get the first report of the type "i entered my name 'John Doe' and it > didn't let me in". :} 99% of the population can live with username (windows) or userid, and even small microsoft can handle the huge number of complaints of their userbase ... i think you are little to harsh to users, they are not THAT stupid ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
i ment something like that: userid: password: session type: login clear shutdown ... (shutdown V, ie dropdown) should be sufficient.
Subject: Re: dropdown "menu" very good naming > no, this is more like "box" on a black box ... cookies says something > about the content, and menu does not. > you don't seem to realize, that this text is supposed to describe the button, not the menu it brings up. of course it would be better if it could say more, but it can't. > apropos diversity: stop xserver, restart xserver? aehm .... yes. > shutdown does "a litte bit" more than terminating the x server. also, the menu already contains "remote login" in kde 3.2 and will probably contain even more, like a session selection submenu (it really does not make that much sense to have this in such a prominent place as now), a language selection submenu and a resolution selection submenu. > but you can't do it with tab and cursor keys, or tab and return, like > for session type or shutdown. > tabbing and pressing space works fine here. > 99% of the population can live with username (windows) ... > hmm, ok, accepted. will change. > i think you are little to harsh to users, they are not THAT stupid ;) > only somebody not knowing users can say that. :)))
Subject: Re: dropdown "menu" very good naming > > no, this is more like "box" on a black box ... cookies says something > > about the content, and menu does not. > > > you don't seem to realize, that this text is supposed to describe the > button, not the menu it brings up. of course it would be better if it > could say more, but it can't. exactly that is the problem, it should NOT describe the button. if it is kraut and rueben, then call it kraut and rueben, but not menu ;) but i strongly suggest not to put kraut and rueben together hiding behind the same button. i have to admit i'm a little windows and apple poisoned since i hat to introduce our computer to my mother who never touched such a thing before and has difficulties with a scrollbar which she moves down and the text goes up. and telling my mother about a button which is named "menu"? no way. things on the screen have to tell what they hide. if not, the general arrangement has to be rethougt. there is only one wastebasket ;) > > > apropos diversity: stop xserver, restart xserver? aehm .... yes. > > > shutdown does "a litte bit" more than terminating the x server. > also, the menu already contains "remote login" in kde 3.2 and will > probably contain even more, like a session selection submenu (it really > does not make that much sense to have this in such a prominent place as > now), a language selection submenu and a resolution selection submenu. wow ... where did you get this idea from? i would expect it to look like this: userid: password: server (default: this one, freetext+dropdown of old) session: (default: last one) login-button if you fill out server and you press login, and you get a remote login. ok, i know that approach from microsoft too ... > > > but you can't do it with tab and cursor keys, or tab and return, like > > for session type or shutdown. > > > tabbing and pressing space works fine here. > > only somebody not knowing users can say that. :))) granted ... maybe i'm biased with my mother, its my mother, you know. and there are writings which say brightness goes from mothers to children. but now as you say that, i remember things which i already forgot ... and i'm frightened *waeh* __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> 4."login" does not work out, because the login name label is already called that > way. and don't suggest renaming it to "username", as it's only a matter of time > till i get the first report of the type "i entered my name 'John Doe' and it > didn't let me in". :} What do you think of "loginname" and a pop-up showing up if the "loginname" the user entered don't exist (with some usefull information so that the user will know what he needs to enter)? :)
> also, the menu already contains "remote login" in kde 3.2 and will > probably contain even more, like a session selection submenu (it really > does not make that much sense to have this in such a prominent place as > now), a language selection submenu and a resolution selection submenu. If guess the last item is about Bug 63804. My intention was also to have something like the server entry from soloturn99@yahoo.com in place of cluttering the menu menu (lol). Mostly in KDE advanced settings like in the menu menu can be reached by clicking on an advanced button which makes all the availible advanced options visible. So IMO the menu menu };-)> should be replaced by an advanced button which makes the login dialog a little bit bigger and shows all the availible (this should be configurable in kcmkdm) advanced settings. Of course there is a little problem with this: if it's a computer used by more people, and someone clicks on the advanced button without logging in, all other people will have a cluttered dialog without knowing why. My proposal to fix this: make it so that this advanced settings are hided automatically after some time without user actions (let's say 5 minutes?).
currently the menu contains these entries (some are missing depending on the config & context): - session type > - authentication method > - remote login / local login - switch user > - restart x server / close connection - console login - shutdown ... now, how to call this? solaris calls it "options", even if it contains "console login" (or however they called it). after all, doing something alternative to a regular login is an option as well. sounds misleading, though. the "actions" variant would work if the real options were moved to the main greeter area and hidden behind an "advanced" button. however, the button would already clutter the dialog, imo. also, it might compose badly with authentication methods that don't use regular dialog elements. and don't suggest to call it "misc". ;)
KDM is unmaintained and not used in KDE Plasma 5. SDDM is the login manager used in KDE Plasma 5. If you still have this same issue with SDDM, please file an issue on the SDDM bugtracker (after doing a search for existing issues first!): https://github.com/sddm/sddm/issues/