Version: (using KDE KDE 3.94.0) Installed from: Compiled From Sources Seeing how KDE will be leading with the KDE 4 release, this is a request to change the archiac floppy disk Save file (and Save File As...) icon to something newer, like a flash card. My suggestion would be a SD-shaped flash card because of the similarity in shape with a floppy disk, to minimize any confusion to changing the icon. Instead of a metal slider at the top of the floppy icon, the metal connectors of a flash card could be shewn.
Just a note þæt æt my work æt a large Fortune 500 company, þe new computers hæve not hæd floppy drives for þe past few years.
> Seeing how KDE will be leading with the KDE 4 release, Well this is still kind of a standard symbol in my opinion for saving. These days there are so many different devices that look different each that it would be hard to find one with a unique shape that reflects the purpose decently. Really each time I come e.g. across an application that uses e.g. Tango I have to guess where to press "save" because the icon for that action lacks the unique shape and the easy to recognize association.
@Aaron. Hwat ye fouke? Art thou ac tima wandrian, ere anly ac lamm tonge changet? :D I agree with the request btw. Just like everyone shifted the "monitor" icon from CRT to LCD, the diskette has to give place to a modern equivalent.
I cannot see the point of this kind of change. If anything, the diskette is a familiar shape, already known for this kind of action. And I'm not saving to an USB key anyway. most of the time. So, if you have a medium-neutral idea, speak up, otherwise, I do not see the point of this exercise.
Stefan Monov wrote: > I agree with the request btw. Just like everyone shifted the > "monitor" icon from CRT to LCD, the diskette has to give place to a > modern equivalent. I disagree. This is different. The monitor as such still exists in prevalent use. Its name is the same. Its function is the same. Only the implementation (technology) is different. But the floppy no longer exists in common use. The name of its replacement is different. The way the replacement is used is different. I don't immediately associate a flash drive with saving. I used to use my flash drive for internet browsing (when I had no net connection at home) using apps from PortableApps.com. And saving need not be only to a flash card. Mostly when you click the icon, the saving is to your HDD. As someone said, the floppy symbol has transcended its physical meaning to connote a higher, wider meaning, like "to google" transcended the meaning of one single company. If I see a flash drive icon, I would wonder "what does this do? what relation does this application have to a flash drive?" You need to go with the current. Mere intellectual arguments that the flash drive has replaced the floppy so its icon should replace the floppy icon too would seriously hit against users' intuitional (based on long time computer use) expectation. My 2 paise. Shriramana Sharma.
The floppy icon for saving dates back to the very first gui systems, probably the Lisa or even the Xerox one. At that time normal home computers didn't had an hard drive, so the floppy icon had the exact meaning of saving the document on the floppy because it was the only place to save something. That exact meaning was lost when computers bagan to normally ship with an hard disk, so the floppy icon began to become not so much a real representation of the save process, but it became truly "iconic" by popular tradition, so it's still clear what it does even if maybe many users never seen a real floppy. it's the same thing like the typewriter that still represent office apps in some icon sets (iirc also in oxygen and tango) So i think that replacing them with an sd card or a thumbdrive would lose the meaning given by the "tradition" while it would not have that direct meaning the floppy icon had at the beginning, because you don't "have" to save the document on an sd card. just my two currency units :)
@ Marco: ok agreed.
Created attachment 22056 [details] Example of a flash card save icon Not being a great artist, ænd hæving only 16 colours to work wið, here bið æn example. Note þæt þe differences between a floppy ænd a flash card can be minimized to reduce confusion. Also, many folks, including me, do save to a flash card, just not as often as to a hard drive.
Created attachment 22057 [details] Flash card wið contacts Here bið a flash card ensample with metal contacts.
I don't agree to change the "save" icon to the "flash card". The floppy disk is a common known metaphor that users know. We shouldn't change it.
We've agreed on the kde-artists mailing list that a flash disk or any device other then the floppy is not a strong enough metaphore to be able to take this route. For now... =)
Ich æm unrote.
I am wondering if we can look into this again?
About Antiquated Metaphors in Icons: http://user-prompt.com/about-antiquated-metaphors-in-icons/
I agree with Heiko: The floppy is by now so strongly associated with "save", people do not need to ever have seen an actual floppy disk to understand it. And he has the numbers to prove it (see the link in his comment). A flash card, on the other hand, would surely work excellent for "save on a flash card", but not for saving anywhere else. The floppy has transcended from a representation of a real-world object to a learned symbol. Why waste that with a new icon? Also see this for a more humorous approach: http://charliek.tumblr.com/post/74188542106/wow-cool-you-made-a-3d-model-of-the-save-icon
Interesting about the page "about-antiquated-metaphors-in-icons". However, notice that the document compares two icons that are totally different from each other, both in shape, color, metaphor usage (an cabinet where papers are placed in, with an floppy disk that is inserted into a drive) and the cabinet even hath a down arrow adding to the confusion. With an SD card icon that hath an similar shape, color, and (in real life) metaphor usage, I predict that folk will be confused for about two seconds, either clicking on the File menu to check the icon next to the Save menu item, or hovering their mouse cursor over the icon waiting for the tool-tip to pop up. When they see that the SD card icon does stand for Save, they will then go on their merry way using the save button. Some will even think that it is about time that someone replaced the antiquated floppy disk save icon. As an aside, at my work we still have and use floppy disks and floppy drives. We joke that some of the engineers working here were not even born when 1.44 HD floppies came out (much less older floppy disk types).
Come to think of it, after looking at the Floppy icon in MS Word and the SD card icons I drew, I am not even sure that many folk will even notice the difference at first glance because the floppy and the SD flash card icons are so similar. For some folk, they will probably be using the icon for a few times before they realize that something is strange about the Save icon :-)
Another thing that came to mind. This would be a great publicity stunt! Imagine, after sending out notices out to the different media and news companies, how this could blow up! I can see the talking heads on the technology shows on the big news channels discussing the how bold a step this would be, or how foolish KDE would look. But hey, even bad publicity is good publicity! Remember that KDE is about pushing the edge (even if this is a very small change if you compare the floppy and SD card icons). KDE hath not shaken things up since they changed to OpenGL only for visual effects for KDE 4. So change the icon and get the publicity materials ready to go to the News corporations, then watch things happen. It hath been over six years since this request was submitted.
So basically we're changing something just for the sake of changing it? Honestly, that doesn't sound like a very convincing argument to me. Can you please provide other arguments for the change? I don't say there cannot be good arguments, but "To create media buzz" should not be the sole motivation for changing an icon which works very well.
The floppy icon's problem is not only that the floppies are not used any more. The problem is that even in the era of floppies, you didn't actually save to them that often. Replacing the icon with a flash card makes no sense to me - I have never saved anything from my computer directly to a flash card in my whole life. The icon could / should be changed, but to something that represents saving, and not something that represents a specific device.
No. We are not changing it just to change it. Otherwise, this bug would not even be submitted. I am submitting this because the basis of the metaphor in real life, the 1.44mb floppy disk, is no longer being used in the vast majority of computer usage. Many folk don't have floppy drives, and some computer users have not even seen a floppy disk. It would be like using a Model T as a metaphor for a car in an icon. Still usable, but very antiquated.
Hello Ivan, Of course I would be up to using something else. However, I picked the SD Card for that it is the most similar metaphor to a floppy disk, while being something that many folk use today. That would create as minimal confusion as possible (if there is any confusion at all, that is).
hey guys Im gona close this bug as works for me, and as a side note think about it, its a good thing that the flopy disk is no longuer a menigfull device, now its just a abstract symbol for save action ;) jist like a old cofe filter from the xerox ofiice is the simbol for filter, or a stack of metalic disks is the simbol for database
Hello Pinheiro, In MS products, the database is now a database spreadsheet or a yellow vertical bar from a bar graph, and the filter symbol is now a metal funnel. So notice how the icons can change with out too much problem.
Might as well submit this to Gnome, Microsoft, etc. to see who will bite :-)
the outline shape is the important bit a database this days is just 3 disks stacked to toguether I said metal cause thatch the most common one, i also said filter and not funel, because thats were the shape come from the old xerox coffe machine used for the filters, no one knows that any more and its not important its an abstract shape people recognize and know. Gnome, we had this discussion with them back wen they design that icon way back wen and they were not sure their solution was the best at the time, and i suspect they would agree that probably its was a bad idea... In a few more years a save action will be just 3 squares, and that's fine as long as people recognize the image and connect it with the concept... as they do right now, and by then no one will know that once upon a time there use to be real devices that vaguely looked like that. Only old farts like us will :D it will be our litle Secret ;)
FWIW, I think the only thing a flash card connotes is *getting* pictures made by a digital camera, not putting or saving anything anywhere.