Bug 69734

Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel]  New: Some aim contacts appear offline

On Sat, December 06 2003 10:48, nick wrote:
> I will repost when I know which version of AIM they are using, if that will
> be useful.

No need, the client of the other person has nothing to do with it.  It's a 
flaw that lies between Kopete and the AIM plugin.  From my limited 
understanding, the AIM protocol uses some form of authorization to allow you 
to see the user on your list, and if you don't add them to your list, that 
authorization doesn't get sent (or something to that effect).  End result is 
that you cannot see their online presence, and the plugin blocks you from 
messaging offline contacts because normally this is not possible (though it 
might (?) work in this case -- Stefan - what would happen if you did not 
block sending of an offline message for now?  It wouldn't be a fix of course, 
but it may make the situation a little better as you could at least message 
back contacts who messaged you first).

I thought I might try to re-add this contact to my list.  Then I realized I am unable to add new contacts in the AIM protocol.  I don't know if this is common among other protocols since i rarely have to add people.  I'm going to try recompiling and see what happens

You should be able to add contacts without issue, so I would hazard to guess that it is a problem with your build.  I've noticed that deleting and re-adding in the same session does *not* work, and indeed even after logging off and back on, the contact still appears offline.  The only thing I have not tried is deleting, restarting Kopete, and then re-adding, which may be sufficient - I do not know.  But I have 3 AIM accounts, so whenever somebody messages me, I add them to my other account list, then write them back from it and explain the situation.  It's a very ugly scenario, but gets me by for the time being.

Whoops, I just realized that this was a duplicate (had I noticed before, I would have marked it and added my comments to the other, but alas).  It already exists as #5 in the list of most hated bugs in all of KDE (that is, bugs with the most votes), and is well-known (for obvious reasons).  Unfortunately, the AIM protocol author has stated that this will not be fixed by KDE 3.2 unless somebody else can help figure it out.  So far, no luck in that.

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 61223 ***

> fortunately, the AIM protocol author has stated
I doubt Matt has said anything about this bug.

> that this will not be fixed by KDE 3.2 unless somebody else can help figure >it out. So far, no luck in that. 
The bug cause is known but it needs a total rewrite of the contactlist management and that just can't be done before 3.2, as easy as that.

Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel]  Some aim contacts appear offline

On Sun, December 07 2003 04:33, Stefan Gehn wrote:
> > fortunately, the AIM protocol author has stated
>
> I doubt Matt has said anything about this bug.

I thought you were the maintainer???

> > that this will not be fixed by KDE 3.2 unless somebody else can help
> > figure >it out. So far, no luck in that.
>
> The bug cause is known but it needs a total rewrite of the contactlist
> management and that just can't be done before 3.2, as easy as that.

Hmm...so things have progressed a bit then?  Could you give me a bit of detail 
about the problem?

Is this because of the freezes or because of the sheer amount of work to be 
done?  If it's just because of the amount of work, then there's always a 
chance that resources will come out of the woodwork (unlikely yes).  If it's 
because of the freezes then we're just stuck entirely.

Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel]  Some aim contacts appear offline

On Sunday 07 December 2003 15:42, Casey Allen Shobe wrote:
> Is this because of the freezes or because of the sheer amount of work to be
> done?  If it's just because of the amount of work, then there's always a
> chance that resources will come out of the woodwork (unlikely yes).  If
> it's because of the freezes then we're just stuck entirely.

The required changes are pretty intrusive and almost impossible to do without 
causing regressions. Now is not a very good timing to start changing this :)

> The required changes are pretty intrusive and almost impossible to do
> without causing regressions. Now is not a very good timing to start changing
> this :) 

Am I the only one on kopete-devel who thinks that this is a serious problem?  In fact *the* most serious Kopete problem we have?  I'm certainly not the only user, judging by this bug being #5 in the most hated list.  I really doubt you could make the AIM plugin any worse overall by introducing regressions right now.  It's nearly unusable like this, and I'm sure that there are a lot of users keeping GAIM around just for their AIM accounts.

And furthermore I'll guarantee that if this bug makes it into the KDE release, we're going to see *hundreds* of these duplicate reports and unrelated comments, etc. etc.

Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel]  Some aim contacts appear offline

On Sunday 07 December 2003 19:17, Casey Allen Shobe wrote:
> I really doubt you could make the AIM plugin any worse overall by
> introducing regressions right now.  It's nearly unusable like this, and I'm
> sure that there are a lot of users keeping GAIM around just for their AIM
> accounts. 

If that's true then by all means try to fix it. I don't use AIM. I have one 
account somewhere, but no buddies that use it, and technically the protocol 
is even less capable than MSN. Actually only ICQ and Jabber are acceptable to 
me, as only those support offline messages and invisibility, but that's 
another issue.

If someone can dig up Stefan's mail about what needs to change (it's a huge 
list) then someone could try it.

Subject: Re: [Kopete-devel]  Some aim contacts appear offline

On Sun, December 07 2003 13:22, Martijn Klingens wrote:
> If that's true then by all means try to fix it.

Believe me, if I were versed enough in C++, I'd be working on it right now.  I 
cannot contribute help to this though...sorry :(.

> I don't use AIM. I have one account somewhere, but no buddies that use it,
> and technically the protocol is even less capable than MSN. Actually only
> ICQ and Jabber are acceptable to me, as only those support offline messages
> and invisibility, but that's another issue.

Yes, it is.  It really doesn't matter how unpopular the protocol is, this is 
very basic core functionality that really really needs to work right if the 
plugin is to be included in a release (and AIM is actually quite popular, 
probably *the* most popular among our userbase).

> If someone can dig up Stefan's mail about what needs to change (it's a huge
> list) then someone could try it.

Yes, let's get that information, and get it attached to the bug report.  
That's really all we can do at this point (until somebody with time and 
capability of making the changes shows up).

All my contacts use AIM and yes, Kopete as of KDE 3.2 is unusable. Contacts are shown offline when they are not. You can view a message from them, but not talk back. Gaim loads all the contacts at startup, even adding them manually with kopete doesn't work here.

Works fine here