Bug 502869

Summary: Some Titler suggestions
Product: [Applications] kdenlive Reporter: Gabriel Gazzán <gabcorreo>
Component: Title Clips & SubtitlesAssignee: Jean-Baptiste Mardelle <jb>
Status: REPORTED ---    
Severity: wishlist CC: berndmj
Priority: NOR Keywords: triaged
Version First Reported In: git-master   
Target Milestone: ---   
Platform: Other   
OS: Other   
Latest Commit: Version Fixed/Implemented In:
Sentry Crash Report:
Attachments: Titler side panel always showing scroll bars.

Description Gabriel Gazzán 2025-04-16 05:27:28 UTC
Hi,
Recently, while translating the manual, I've had the opportunity to pay closer attention to the whole Titler feature set, UI and workflows.
So I've written down some of the things that occurred to me, while going through the different areas covered in the manual (and testing them in the program), hoping that others could find them useful too.

Following, there are some ideas for things that could be improved (some of which seemingly modest in scope) to make working with titles in Kdenlive more powerful and enjoyable:

Shape & Image objects: 
- To have shadows also for shape and image objects (with same options as for texts).
- To have a way to do an interactive scale from center. (holding down Alt or something)
- To have a way to do an interactive scale, while maintaining the current aspect ratio of the shape/image. (holding down Shift or something)

Gradient Editor:
- Be able to create Circular/Elliptical gradients.
Sliders in Gradient Editor:
- Right click over a slider to reset to default value (since they don't show a value is hard to take them back to default).
- While dragging a slider, snap to certain degree angles (90, 45?).

UI:
- When "Show Background" option is active, disable background types combo box.
To improve discoverability of template feature:
- "Open Document" button label is somewhat confusing (the term "Document" is not really used for anything else). Perhaps "Open Template" would be better?
- Also, when opening a template using that button, there is no previous confirmation/warning, it just replaces what's in the workspace.
- "Save As" button, also doesn't indicate what type of file it will be saving. Perhaps "Save Template As" would be better?


Title Templates feature:
- Ability to use more codes (like current '%s') to have more than one replaceable text in each template (perhaps using %1, %2, %3, etc).
- When creating a new title from a template, display in the new title dialog as many text fields as % codes the selected template uses.
- Do the same for text fields in the Clip Properties widget.


I'm sure many more things could be said about potential Titler new features, but I tried to just stick to those improvements that could be undertaken with moderate effort, while still rewarding users with some good new possibilities on daily tasks.


Thanks for listening!
Comment 1 Gabriel Gazzán 2025-04-16 06:52:12 UTC
Regarding the "Open Document" and "Save As" buttons, well... I was wrong with respect to the extent of what they do (they not only save template titles, but just normal "external" titles). Still, perhaps it would be clearer to the user, if they just say "Open Title" and "Save Title As". 
(Then, those titles would be seen by the program as templates or not, depending on where they are saved).

While at it,
I've seen an unexpected behavior when loading external titles that have a '%s' code in them.

I'll try to describe it the best I can:
- Save a title file with the titler's "Save As" button, in any folder. (the title contains a text field with a '%s' code)
- Start a new project.
- Load the title file using "Add Clip or Folder" into the Project Bin.
- In the Clip Properties widget, type a text to replace the '%s' code in the title.
- Edit the title clip by double clicking on it or with "Edit Clip" option. Add something to it.
- Click on the "Update Title" button in the Titler.
- The warning dialog opens, asking whether to overwrite the external file or only change the title locally.  Choose change the local title.
- Now the title in the project should be detached from the external file (it is). But...
a. in the Clip Properties widget the text field still shows.
b. when you double click to edit the (now local) title, in the Titler workspace the text code '%s' still shows, instead of the text that the local title is using.
...
If you save the project and reopen it.
- Now the Clip Properties widget for that title does not show the text field (expected behavior), but...
a. the title still shows the local-typed text in the Monitors
b. if you edit it, inside the Titler workspace the '%s' code is still there (but now, there's no way for the user to control/change the text that replaces it).

So, it seems something should be done to make it work in an predictable fashion.
I guess the ideal thing would be for the local text to be shown in the titler, instead of the '%s' code.
But, at least (if the first choice proves hard to be implemented), it'd be understandable if once the title is detached from the external file, the locally typed text is no longer shown in the title at all. (That will require the user to Edit the title and manually retype the desired text inside the Titler, but at least the behavior would not be an unexpected one).
Comment 2 Bernd 2025-04-20 14:34:34 UTC
Thanks for the suggestions. All good stuff and very valid. The Title Editor desperately needs some TLC but so far no takers ...
Comment 3 Jean-Baptiste Mardelle 2025-04-22 13:12:04 UTC
Git commit d7a2b87dcbc48b2ccf34b1e2144a984428fdff81 by Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.
Committed on 22/04/2025 at 13:11.
Pushed by mardelle into branch 'release/25.04'.

Titler: disable background type if background disabled
Remove duplicate shortcuts from toolbar actions

M  +2    -8    src/titler/titlewidget.cpp

https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/kdenlive/-/commit/d7a2b87dcbc48b2ccf34b1e2144a984428fdff81
Comment 4 Gabriel Gazzán 2025-04-22 16:21:31 UTC
(In reply to Jean-Baptiste Mardelle from comment #3)
> Git commit d7a2b87dcbc48b2ccf34b1e2144a984428fdff81 by Jean-Baptiste

Nice! Thank you!!  :)
Comment 5 Jean-Baptiste Mardelle 2025-04-23 11:33:35 UTC
Git commit 17dbce0c9cf2fab0ebdbcb0fd2a062b4d6949c94 by Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.
Committed on 23/04/2025 at 11:33.
Pushed by mardelle into branch 'release/25.04'.

Add spinbox with values in titler's gradient editor

M  +29   -3    src/titler/gradientwidget.cpp
M  +29   -8    src/ui/gradientedit_ui.ui

https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/kdenlive/-/commit/17dbce0c9cf2fab0ebdbcb0fd2a062b4d6949c94
Comment 6 Gabriel Gazzán 2025-04-26 05:10:31 UTC
Another "relatively simple" improvement (at least from a UI perspective) that would make life easier inside the Titler, would be a way to be able to change the time cursor position from inside de Titler app.

Frequently, the "Show Background" feature is used to check for appropriate readability of a title over the actual video in lower tracks, and that may change quite lot during the period of time a title will be on display. So, being able to check it against some of the key moments in the background image could greatly help, while selecting colors for title elements.

Perhaps a slider, or even just a time counter, somewhere inside the Titler would greatly improve the workflow, in such situations.
Comment 7 Jean-Baptiste Mardelle 2025-04-26 14:42:24 UTC
Git commit c60b3e5ecdcaf60ae35b0155736737a200a19ab5 by Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.
Committed on 26/04/2025 at 14:41.
Pushed by mardelle into branch 'master'.

Titler: allow scaling images with mouse drag

M  +38   -24   src/titler/graphicsscenerectmove.cpp
M  +1    -0    src/titler/graphicsscenerectmove.h
M  +26   -0    src/titler/titlewidget.cpp
M  +1    -0    src/titler/titlewidget.h

https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/kdenlive/-/commit/c60b3e5ecdcaf60ae35b0155736737a200a19ab5
Comment 8 Bernd 2025-04-28 13:34:49 UTC
(In reply to Gabriel Gazzán from comment #6)
> Another "relatively simple" improvement (at least from a UI perspective)
> that would make life easier inside the Titler, would be a way to be able to
> change the time cursor position from inside de Titler app.
> 
> Frequently, the "Show Background" feature is used to check for appropriate
> readability of a title over the actual video in lower tracks, and that may
> change quite lot during the period of time a title will be on display. So,
> being able to check it against some of the key moments in the background
> image could greatly help, while selecting colors for title elements.
> 
> Perhaps a slider, or even just a time counter, somewhere inside the Titler
> would greatly improve the workflow, in such situations.

I suggest to make this a separate wish list item so that we can keep track better ...
Comment 9 Jean-Baptiste Mardelle 2025-04-29 09:18:25 UTC
Git commit 49be8aea5bab3f2e1df5193df13e66375ad1b7d0 by Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.
Committed on 29/04/2025 at 09:18.
Pushed by mardelle into branch 'master'.

Various titler fixes: allow correctly moving and resizing svg items, add center resize with Shift+Drag

M  +257  -156  src/titler/graphicsscenerectmove.cpp
M  +3    -1    src/titler/graphicsscenerectmove.h
M  +76   -32   src/titler/titlewidget.cpp
M  +5    -3    src/titler/titlewidget.h

https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/kdenlive/-/commit/49be8aea5bab3f2e1df5193df13e66375ad1b7d0
Comment 10 Jean-Baptiste Mardelle 2025-04-30 07:18:17 UTC
Git commit 04046e707d879ec731b96473fb5b4fe4acbd51c6 by Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.
Committed on 30/04/2025 at 07:18.
Pushed by mardelle into branch 'master'.

Add timecode to seek in Title widget, Rename pattern tab to templates and move templates there

M  +28   -4    src/titler/titlewidget.cpp
M  +7    -0    src/titler/titlewidget.h
M  +58   -25   src/ui/titlewidget_ui.ui

https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/kdenlive/-/commit/04046e707d879ec731b96473fb5b4fe4acbd51c6
Comment 11 Gabriel Gazzán 2025-04-30 23:45:44 UTC
Loved all the changes.
Thank you!! :)

...maybe the "Templates" tab (which now provides access to both templates and patterns) could be called something like "Presets"?
(not really important, though)
Comment 12 Gabriel Gazzán 2025-05-01 00:11:28 UTC
One usability improvement that goes beyond the Titler itself, but directly applies to this new "timecode" field in the Titler, would be the ability to click and drag (left/right) over a timecode field to quickly change its value. 
Much like what is currently possible in other numeric fields (like the ones in the Transform effect, for example), also with their Shift and Ctrl variations for different speeds (and possible Alt for step increments?)

Anyways, when a user wants to scrub the video to reach, more or less, a certain point in time, it could prove a very handy method of doing it (when not having at hand the Timeline to do so, like in this case).
Comment 13 Gabriel Gazzán 2025-05-01 00:28:05 UTC
One little inconvenience I experienced when wanting to edit a title that's already in a track in the Timeline, is that when you do a double click on the clip to open the Title Editor, the time cursor jumps to the point where the mouse cursor was when doing it. This causes the background image in the Titler to be different from what you were seeing in the Monitor, before performing the double click.
(And, yes, with the new timecode field in the Titler the user can now overcome this problem without leaving the Titler. Thanks again! :) But, anyway, I think it would be even better if that didn't happened, in first place).

(I also noticed, time cursor does not jump when double clicking on other type of clips. So even for consistency's sake it seems to be a good thing?)
Comment 14 Jean-Baptiste Mardelle 2025-05-01 07:32:13 UTC
Git commit 0e7a26b5c7b28502183d00200f4be83a8ccfc8f3 by Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.
Committed on 01/05/2025 at 07:32.
Pushed by mardelle into branch 'master'.

Don't seek when double clicking a title in timeline

M  +0    -1    src/timeline2/view/timelinecontroller.cpp

https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/kdenlive/-/commit/0e7a26b5c7b28502183d00200f4be83a8ccfc8f3
Comment 15 Jean-Baptiste Mardelle 2025-05-01 07:49:28 UTC
Git commit 95463586fe074fa2da183719c5c026471f124f94 by Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.
Committed on 01/05/2025 at 07:49.
Pushed by mardelle into branch 'master'.

Timecode widget can now be dragged to seek (Shift+drag for 1 frame, CTRL+drag for fast seek)

M  +122  -0    src/widgets/timecodedisplay.cpp
M  +10   -0    src/widgets/timecodedisplay.h

https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/kdenlive/-/commit/95463586fe074fa2da183719c5c026471f124f94
Comment 16 Gabriel Gazzán 2025-05-02 17:09:57 UTC
Awesome!
it works great
now the general workflow is so much better.
Thanks! :)
Comment 17 Gabriel Gazzán 2025-05-05 20:40:34 UTC
Created attachment 180966 [details]
Titler side panel always showing scroll bars.

For some reason I noticed that, every time the Titler opens, the side panel width is some pixels too narrow to avoid showing the scroll bars, so some options get occluded and the user has to constantly adjust it.
This happens only when using the translated UI, and not in English.
This happens no matter how big the Titler window was the last time it was used.

I've attached a short video with a wipe scanning the differences between the English and the translated UIs.
Comment 18 Jean-Baptiste Mardelle 2025-05-06 07:05:57 UTC
Git commit 156ab9072b80c8fe822eb878d21136175d33c644 by Jean-Baptiste Mardelle.
Committed on 06/05/2025 at 07:05.
Pushed by mardelle into branch 'release/25.04'.

Save and restore titler tool panel width

M  +15   -7    src/titler/titlewidget.cpp
M  +1    -1    src/titler/titlewidget.h

https://invent.kde.org/multimedia/kdenlive/-/commit/156ab9072b80c8fe822eb878d21136175d33c644
Comment 19 Gabriel Gazzán 2025-05-06 16:12:46 UTC
Thank you!
It works perfectly now.