Bug 469137

Are you confusing mkv with something else? It is NOT some abandoned "dinosaur" format from the 90s, it came out in 2002 more than a year AFTER mp4 and it had its latest release last october, whereas mp4 hasn't had a new release in 3 years.
Mkv ("Matroska") is actually a very popular, very flexible container format that supports almost any codec imaginable (including H264 and H265 video and mp3 or AAC audio). It is a completely free and open standard (unlike mp4) and doesn't have anything to do with Microsoft or proprietary formats.
It also holds a significant advantage over mp4 for recording scenarios like this, which is that it can recover better from sudden interruptions during recording (like crashes or power outages) as unlike mp4 it doesn't result in broken files. It is the preferred container format in OBS Studio for a reason.
I also don't understand your complaint about editing and modifying mkv files. FFMPEG and handbrake can work with them just fine, and so can most video editors. I don't know which software you usually use to manipulate your MP4 files of course.

Now, the actual codecs used by kamoso are a different story. It records theora video and vorbis audio, the latter is okay but theora *is* a dinosaur codec and not very good. But again, that has nothing to do with mkv. Kamoso could easily switch to H264 / H265 video and mp3 (or rather AAC which is much more popular for videos) audio, while keeping the Matroska container format.
Although I'm not sure how that would work with the licensing of these codecs, so it might be better to switch to VP8/VP9 video and Opus audio instead which are good modern free formats and also widely supported (YouTube uses them).

(In reply to Firlaev-Hans from comment #1)
> Are you confusing mkv with something else? It is NOT some abandoned
> "dinosaur" format from the 90s, it came out in 2002 more than a year AFTER
> mp4 and it had its latest release last october, whereas mp4 hasn't had a new
> release in 3 years.
> Mkv ("Matroska") is actually a very popular, very flexible container format
> that supports almost any codec imaginable (including H264 and H265 video and
> mp3 or AAC audio). It is a completely free and open standard (unlike mp4)
> and doesn't have anything to do with Microsoft or proprietary formats.
> It also holds a significant advantage over mp4 for recording scenarios like
> this, which is that it can recover better from sudden interruptions during
> recording (like crashes or power outages) as unlike mp4 it doesn't result in
> broken files. It is the preferred container format in OBS Studio for a
> reason.
> I also don't understand your complaint about editing and modifying mkv
> files. FFMPEG and handbrake can work with them just fine, and so can most
> video editors. I don't know which software you usually use to manipulate
> your MP4 files of course.
> 
> Now, the actual codecs used by kamoso are a different story. It records
> theora video and vorbis audio, the latter is okay but theora *is* a dinosaur
> codec and not very good. But again, that has nothing to do with mkv. Kamoso
> could easily switch to H264 / H265 video and mp3 (or rather AAC which is
> much more popular for videos) audio, while keeping the Matroska container
> format.
> Although I'm not sure how that would work with the licensing of these
> codecs, so it might be better to switch to VP8/VP9 video and Opus audio
> instead which are good modern free formats and also widely supported
> (YouTube uses them).



The issue is this.

I want to make videos.

So this software records them in MKV.

None of the publishing platforms that I know of, accept videos in MKV format.

I then have to convert all video's from MKV, into MP4, using H265 - hopefully to get the best video quality and a good small file size.

No matter how much you might like to defend and support and retain MKV - technologically speaking, it's redundant - and it's gone by the wayside.

This program needs to be switched to H265 compression and into the mp4 format.


All of the platforms

> Are you confusing mkv with something else?

Really sounds like they confused it with AVI (or maybe ASF/WMV? – could really be either from the description). Regardless…

> I want to make videos.
> 
> So this software records them in MKV.
> 
> None of the publishing platforms that I know of, accept videos in MKV format.

They may have a point for that though: While MKV is popular with video *editing*, for *publishing* the expected container format seems to generally be MP4 for MPEG LA A/V codecs (H.264/H.265 with MP3/AAC) and WebM for Xiph A/V codecs (VP8/VP9/AV1 with Vorbis/Opus).

Based on this, I’ll propose an alternate issue description that is neither both inaccurate nor slightly offensive:


# Kamoso only supports recording video using the MKV container format

Currently Kamoso only allows videos to be recorded only using the MKV container format. This format, while OK for video editing and archival, is not generally accepted on video publishing sites and hence makes Kamoso harder to use when recording video for publishing. As such, it would be nice if Kamoso allowed recording video using an MP4 container format containing either H.264 or H.265 video and MP3 or AAC audio, as that is still the most accepted format for video publishing currently. Since these formats are proprietary and a commonly accepted Open Source format stack exists it would be preferable if, at the same time, the option to also record video using the WebM container format containing either VP8 or VP9 video and Vorbis or Opus audio also be added.

Most likely support for any of these would “just” boil down to passing the right set of parameters to GStreamer, so it shouldn’t make much difference how many format options are exposed in the UI – within reason of course. Some feedback from GStreamer might be needed for the UI however since not all installations include support for encoding to proprietary formats. I’d assume the following options (drop-down menu) would be ideal:

  * The current MKV video configuration – needs a good description
  * MP4 (proprietary, modest compression, highly compatible, H.264/MP3)
  * MP4 (proprietary, high compression, usually compatible, H.265/AAC)
  * WebM (open, modest compression, often compatible, VP8/Vorbis)
  * WebM (open, high compression, usually compatible, VP9/Opus)

Created attachment 164550 [details]
There is a Simple Solution - Dump the Program

Kamoso - being locked into MKV - no one and nothing uses it.....

I dunno - if I was to look up formats, that have been uploaded and are on the internet, there might be 100 trillion billion videos in MP4 and only 100 videos in MKV.

While MKV is an excellent compression format - no one uses it, non of the platforms accept it, and no browsers run it.

What part of "This is an unuseable format" don't you understand?

Best solution - if your not UPGRADING the program, I can record all my videos on my Android phone, and compress them down using "OPEN SHOT" - so I get comparable video quality, at 1/3rd to 1/5th the file size and upload these videos.... 

And MKV is one user less, to going into oblivion forever.

To be forgotten forever as it fades into the mists of time.

Don't believe me, look at all the mobile phone proprietary video and audio formats that have come and gone...

And no one has codecs for them any more.....

MKV is only one or two steps behind all of them - and it's gone for ever.

https://www.howtogeek.com/680690/how-to-install-free-hevc-codecs-on-windows-10-for-h265-video/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_codec

The most popular video coding standards used for codecs have been the MPEG standards. MPEG-1 was developed by the Motion Picture Experts Group (MPEG) in 1991, and it was designed to compress VHS-quality video. It was succeeded in 1994 by MPEG-2/H.262,[5] which was developed by a number of companies, primarily Sony, Thomson and Mitsubishi Electric.[7] MPEG-2 became the standard video format for DVD and SD digital television.[5] In 1999, it was followed by MPEG-4/H.263, which was a major leap forward for video compression technology.[5] It was developed by a number of companies, primarily Mitsubishi Electric, Hitachi and Panasonic.[8]

The most widely used video coding format, as of 2016, is H.264/MPEG-4 AVC. It was developed in 2003 by a number of organizations, primarily Panasonic, Godo Kaisha IP Bridge and LG Electronics.[9] H.264 is the main video encoding standard for Blu-ray Discs, and is widely used by streaming internet services such as YouTube, Netflix, Vimeo, and iTunes Store, web software such as Adobe Flash Player and Microsoft Silverlight, and various HDTV broadcasts over terrestrial and satellite television.

AVC has been succeeded by HEVC (H.265), developed in 2013. It is heavily patented, with the majority of patents belonging to Samsung Electronics, GE, NTT and JVC Kenwood.[10][11] The adoption of HEVC has been hampered by its complex licensing structure. HEVC is in turn succeeded by Versatile Video Coding (VVC).

There are also the open and free VP8, VP9 and AV1 video coding formats, used by YouTube, all of which were developed with involvement from Google.

I was just mulling through some old video files - AND:

All the Late Great File Formats - have just disappeared.

AVI = Gone.

FLV = Gone.

and MKV = ???????? 20 years ago, It only had like 0.0001% of the entire video production market...

And 20 years later ?????? I come across it as often as I do an Edison Wax Cylinder.

So why is it still being the default video format?

You know I am compressing my MP4 video files off my phone - which makes good videos, even in lower resolution... and I am recompressing them using H265 - which takes a 1 Gig file down to about 250 Meg... and the video quality is excellent and indistinguishable from the original.. 

I can upload them  to all the sites.

And you guys are saying "Oh we are still working with an encoder that only the dinosaurs use...."

Not at all awesome.


So why are people STILL using MKV as the default file format for KDE?

This file format is DEAD..... No one wants it and no one uses it.

I was just mulling through some old video files - AND:

All the Late Great File Formats - have just disappeared.

AVI = Gone.

FLV = Gone.

and MKV = ???????? 20 years ago, It only had like 0.0001% of the entire video production market...

And 20 years later ?????? I come across it as often as I do an Edison Wax Cylinder.

So why is it still being the default video format?

You know I am compressing my MP4 video files off my phone - which makes good videos, even in lower resolution... and I am recompressing them using H265 - which takes a 1 Gig file down to about 250 Meg... and the video quality is excellent and indistinguishable from the original.. 

I can upload them  to all the sites.

And you guys are saying "Oh we are still working with an encoder that only the dinosaurs use...."

Not at all awesome.


So why are people STILL using MKV as the default file format for KDE?

This file format is DEAD..... No one wants it and no one uses it.

> why are people STILL using MKV as the default file format for KDE

Because it is the only open container format, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_container_formats

Yeah so was AVI, FLV, M4V, WMV, etc....


On 25/3/24 12:19, Christoph Feck wrote:
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=469137
>
> Christoph Feck <cfeck@kde.org> changed:
>
>             What    |Removed                     |Added
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>               Status|REPORTED                    |RESOLVED
>           Resolution|---                         |NOT A BUG
>                   CC|                            |cfeck@kde.org
>
> --- Comment #8 from Christoph Feck <cfeck@kde.org> ---
>> why are people STILL using MKV as the default file format for KDE
> Because it is the only open container format, see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_video_container_formats
>

Yeah so was AVI, FLV, M4V, WMV, etc....