Bug 400264

Since it's a distro packaging problem, there's unfortunately nothing we can do about it here in KDE. You'll need to find another way to report this to the Ubuntu folks. Since Launchpad isn't helpful, I would recommend filing a Phabricator ticket (https://phabricator.kde.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/) and tag "Kubuntu". Thanks!

(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #1)
> Since it's a distro packaging problem, there's unfortunately nothing we can
> do about it here in KDE. You'll need to find another way to report this to
> the Ubuntu folks. Since Launchpad isn't helpful, I would recommend filing a
> Phabricator ticket (https://phabricator.kde.org/maniphest/task/edit/form/1/)
> and tag "Kubuntu". Thanks!

NO.

This reply is unacceptable. The Launchpad page does not belong to "Ubuntu" or "Kubuntu" folks. It belongs to Kdenlive. The names of the owners is listed there, they are Kdenlive folks, not Canonical or anybody else. For courtesy I am not listing here those names because this is not personal. But it's not a secret, it's public and don't force me to make this about people's names.

This type of reply is not new. I have seen this practically copy/paste even in your forum. And again, it's very annoying, not say a bit on the limits of what's honest, to not assume responsibilities and throw users in a crazy direction.  If me or any other user starts opening bug reports in the wild nobody will take ownership of something that it's not theirs. This is either a plain and silly mistake, or a very irresponsible and insulting way of "RESOLVING" issues.   By the way the issue is NOT mainstream, it is NOT resolved and I have marked reopened.

I would like a reply from one of the members of the Kdenlive team that are active in the Official Kdenlive Launchpad project page, or a very clear and credible explanation of why there would be common names in both Kdenlive and Launchpad Official Kdenlive PPA projects.  Coincidence?

What is Kdenlive interest in have a PPA with broken packages and then deceptive communication with users to avoid debugging?

Who is responsible for this?

Ah, I missed that you were installing via the PPA. The PPA is indeed owned by the Kdenlive developers, so it's appropriate to keep this open.

I understand that you're frustrated, but let's try to keep the attitude to a minimum. Please see https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Bug_Reporting#Bug_tracker_etiquette. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. :)

Also please understand the resolution statuses: https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Bug_Reporting#Understand_what_the_resolution_statuses_mean

RESOLVED does not necessarily mean "fixed for you personally with your usage today", but it can mean "Fixed in the code even though it's not released yet or available for your choice of distro", or even "there is nothing we can do here; the problem is elsewhere". This is all completely normal and it's the way every bug tracker on the planet works. In this case, you were right and it should remain open since the PPA is something something that the Kdenlive developers own, but please understand that sometimes a RESOLVED status may not be what you were hoping for and you'll need to follow up somewhere else. Thanks!

(In reply to Nate Graham from comment #3)
> Ah, I missed that you were installing via the PPA. The PPA is indeed owned
> by the Kdenlive developers, so it's appropriate to keep this open.
> 
> I understand that you're frustrated, but let's try to keep the attitude to a
> minimum.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I totally agree that we have to keep it nice. Not only here, everywhere. There is also such thing "action and reaction". My remarks are assertive, not disrespectful, because the reply was crying for an assertive remark.  I did say and repeat now that this is not about persons, it is a technical thing about code, and my report is about code and the impact of code on normal users, and I will keep it in that scope. That doesn't mean that a nonsense, not applicable, copy/paste reply that has all the characteristics of "not my fault, look elsewhere" doesn't deserve an assertive reaction, and as said in my comment, it can only be explained two ways: either a silly mistake (which seems to have been the case) or a questionable practice that is far too common in certain bug trackers on this Planet (and yes, the pun is intended: action and reaction, which is what we should try to stop). I would be delightful to prove with embarrassing evidences that what I am saying is dramatically true, but not in this thread. This bug tracker is one of the most blatant examples in my favor, but not exclusively, sadly.

So while I support the use of more sugar and less vinegar, I also have to highlight that there is a good portion of the later in your comments. But to re-focus in what matters:

1. I appreciate that you recognize that I am right. This means the report is correct and valid and thus it should be processed appropriately.

2. Users that care to spend a big amount of time to produce bug reports and investigate things and follow up on FOSS programs, do so because they are committed to the project in their own way and that has also big costs for them. So it's not only the efforts of the devs. It is also the sacrifices that many users do in going through this type of things. It is dramatic that most users don't know how to or are afraid of trying reporting anything because the rule is, specially in certain bug trackers, that they are going to get either a patronizing or an evasive or yet a confusing mambojumbo dev talk about some procedural thing (equivalent to "lawyer talk") to deviate from what matters: The USER'S experience.

3. I have had so many bad experiences with Kdenlive that if I would open a bug report for each one I would get crazy. But when I decide to sacrifice a big portion of my time in order to help the developers (I program too) but most specially the USERs, the last thing I need to get through is enter in a discussion about bad attitudes or much less about semantics of what bugtrackers of the planet say an English word means. That is relevant for the owners of the project, but not at all for users. If users are treated as developers, then it's better not have bug trackers at all. Not everybody is a dev, same as not everybody is a lawyer. Though I am a developer, I have had my own bugtrackers and I know what does it mean to me when I RESOLVE something.  But that is not relevant, it's NOT about me and I shall not discuss semantics here and ignore the real issue.

Thanks again for rectifying your initial reply, I remain available for helping if and as I can, even if it is a small contribution.

Hello,

Sorry I am the responsible for your recent bad times.

please try "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kdenlive/mlt".

Explanation: I have less and less time to take care of these PPA among other things, and was bored of triggering MLT builds or copying in each PPA, then waiting completion (hours), then triggering Kdenlive build...
So I discovered the "PPA dependency" feature and believed it would solve the problem, by making builders only once.
Partly true: PPA dependency is not automatically added on users setup, that's why you are facing this problem. I did not see that because I had the dependency PPA installed (and don't test much as I even don't do this for myself, not a ubuntu user).

Please tell me if that solves the problem, then I will have to find a way to automate the process for users or for copying packages on my side, but so many other things to do.

In the meantime, do you know you also can use our AppImages for a while?

Regards,

Vincent

(In reply to Vincent PINON from comment #5)

Thank you very much for very prompt and honest reply and actions taken.

I have seen few minutes ago, on doing the daily update of my system, that the libmlt++3 and libmlt6 where ready to be updated to the 6.10 version, so I immediately did install Kdenlive successfully, no issues.

I also had previously tested the appimage and managed to complete some work, although with some issues, but nothing as serious as the one you have fixed. Unfortunately I have been quite busy with other things so I am not able to make more thorough tests or comments.

Let me clearly express my gratitude for your hard work and quick response. And that extends to @Nate Graham, without any doubt.  Yes, I have reacted firmly to an initial misfortune comment, but in no way I have been unpolite or incorrect. I have the utmost respect for people who take their projects seriously and now you are demonstrating with actions a very professional response.  That's very important to me, more than any code being perfect, because that will never exist.

Risking repeating myself, I always think of users that have less knowledge, or less experience and are unsure or afraid of going through some of these bumps, that sometimes may put all sides on their toes and test patience and understanding. I feel the pain of those who depend on a "computer guy" to help them fix their issues. So while I have some resources that allow me to, if not fix, at least navigate through the "computer" issues, including arguing with developers more experienced and qualified than me, I cannot stay indifferent to posts like I have seen in some forums about same issue and unfair replies.

What matters is, as far as I can tell, this issue has been reported promptly and also fixed promptly and users can now install Kdenlive in Ubuntu 18.04 using the Kdenlive PPA, so that makes my day. Thanks again!

Oh, one more important thing, I had to come back and log in again.

When I say thanks for prompt reply, I am not saying that what matters is that you fix things immediately.  It is a known problem that a big percentage of FOSS developers are near the burnout syndrome.  You do not have or should have to put your health at risk for any project. While users get happy their issues get resolved immediately, that should not be expected or demanded: a burnout is a very serious issue.  I know what it is.

I would have been very happy if you would have just acknowledge the problem and explaining it would take some patience because of work load. I would never support people demanding for quick fixes.

So please, your health and private life are priority number one.  Anybody not understanding that, doesn't deserve to be listened to, or work for, ever.

Great, I'm happy to hear that this is fixed and you're now un-stuck! I understand your perspective about less technical users, and I'll thank you for making it. Too often we get stuck in our bubble and forget about it! And thanks for the kind words about pacing and burnout. :)