Bug 261344

> It makes no sense to have a "Small" font the  same size as all others.

Why not? All my fonts have the same (small) size, and I don't want "Small" to be any smaller.

Small is expected by normal people to fit in smaller space than such sizes as desktop or general. Most people will not want a smaller size to equal normal size. "Small" is not necessarily a description of size per se. In at least one common instance it is the name of a size intended to be smaller than the size of other enumerated fonts. cf. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#font-size-props

Maybe the term "Small" is misleading, as though it refers to the place the font is to be used (just as "Menu" does) it does seem to describe the font itself. Perhaps it should be called "Cramped" or "Small Spaces".

(In reply to comment #0)
> It makes no sense to have a "Small" font the  same size as all others.
> "Adjust All Fonts" should make "Small" 1pt or 2pt smaller than the selected
> size of the rest, and if the result isn't pleasing, the user can tweak it
> individually after completing the "All" selection.

Hmm...
The reverse is actually true and working.
1- I click the "Adjust All Fonts..." button and set it to, say, 11 and then
2- (Individual tweaking) I click the "Choose..." button for Small and set it from 11 to, say, 10

I am afraid that "Adjust All Fonts..." is actually doing what it should be doing... albeit maybe the caption should be instead "Set all window components" or something better.

I think "Small" is not a proper, not ideal description or name for such item. We don't see its counterpart: a "Large" item in the list. We mostly see what are window components in the list: toolbar, desktop, window title, menu, etc.

> Alternatively, the "All"
> selection could have a separate select list for choosing how much smaller
> than "Menu" to make "Small", with a default set to 1 or 2.

Then this would require a new name/caption for such button. And probably 2 buttons.

Example given: 
Something like: an "Increase proportionally all sizes" button 
and 
a "Decrease proportionally all sizes" button.

Or even
an "Increment all sizes" button 
and 
a "Decrement all sizes" button.

(In reply to comment #4)
> (In reply to comment #0)
> > It makes no sense to have a "Small" font the  same size as all others.
> > "Adjust All Fonts" should make "Small" 1pt or 2pt smaller than the selected
> > size of the rest, and if the result isn't pleasing, the user can tweak it
> > individually after completing the "All" selection.

> Hmm...
> The reverse is actually true and working.

Correct, yet not sensible, as there's no point in a small that is not smaller, except if someone wants to in effect eliminate small as a distinct and smaller size.

> I am afraid that "Adjust All Fonts..." is actually doing what it should be
> doing... albeit maybe the caption should be instead "Set all window
> components" or something better.

Agree...
 
> I think "Small" is not a proper, not ideal description or name for such
> item. We don't see its counterpart: a "Large" item in the list. We mostly
> see what are window components in the list: toolbar, desktop, window title,
> menu, etc.

I think "small" here really is supposed to correspond to either CSS small or smaller.
 
> > Alternatively, the "All"
> > selection could have a separate select list for choosing how much smaller
> > than "Menu" to make "Small", with a default set to 1 or 2.

A reasonable possibility.
 
> Then this would require a new name/caption for such button. And probably 2
> buttons.
 
> Example given: 
> Something like: an "Increase proportionally all sizes" button 
> and 
> a "Decrease proportionally all sizes" button.
 
> Or even
> an "Increment all sizes" button 
> and 
> a "Decrement all sizes" button.

I like the increment/decrement idea better. Regardless the approach, a font size named "small" should be kept smaller than most other sizes unless a user makes a specific selection WRT the "small" size specifically.

(In reply to comment #5)

> I think "small" here really is supposed to correspond to either CSS small or
> smaller.

or to small-caption from the list of predefined (reserved keyworded system fonts) CSS font-sizes from section 15.8
caption | icon | menu | message-box | small-caption | status-bar
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#font-shorthand

> > Then this would require a new name/caption for such button. And probably 2
> > buttons.
(...)
> > an "Increment all sizes" button 
> > and 
> > a "Decrement all sizes" button.
> 
> I like the increment/decrement idea better.

Felix, I think (not sure) we need to create another bug report then.. and make this a wishlist (enhancement request type). I'd be happy to CONFIRM it.

Gérard

I don't know that a different bug would better serve the purpose. At this point what's really needed is a mockup of a potential alternative to what is now. Perhaps adding a last column of checkboxes, changing "All" to "Selected", and adding a select all/deselect all toggle would do it, maybe pre-selecting all except small on window initialization.

There is definitely a real bug here. The "Small" size is smaller than the other ones by default, and that distinction should be respected when changing all fonts. VDG members are currently discussing how to resolve this issue as part of a visual overhaul of the Fonts KCM.

https://phabricator.kde.org/D29156

Git commit 24e4e15b7b043a02dd6b7ea14b31b5737b76a79c by Nate Graham.
Committed on 29/04/2020 at 15:12.
Pushed by ngraham into branch 'master'.

[kcms/fonts] When adjusting all fonts, keep Small font size smaller

Summary:
By default, the "Small" font is 2 points smaller than the "Normal" one. However when you
adjust the size of all fonts, this 2-pts-smaller relationship is not preserved, so the
Small font is set to the same size of the Normal font, defeating its reason for existence.

This patch preserves the "2px smaller" relationship between the Small and Normal fonts
when adjusting all of them at once.
FIXED-IN: 5.19.0

Test Plan: {F8258008}

Reviewers: #plasma, ahmadsamir, bport, cblack

Reviewed By: ahmadsamir, bport, cblack

Subscribers: cblack, plasma-devel

Tags: #plasma

Differential Revision: https://phabricator.kde.org/D29156

M  +11   -1    kcms/fonts/fonts.cpp

https://commits.kde.org/plasma-desktop/24e4e15b7b043a02dd6b7ea14b31b5737b76a79c

Hey Nate,

I saw this in your blog post. I'm not sure this is the right fix. You can similarly adjust the monospace font to be non monospace. If I adjust all fonts, and one doesn't change with it, that's weird.

I think there's a big difference between weirdness the user can go "oh I screwed up" and "why didn't it do what I told it to?". We've moved from the former here, to the later, and without any additional indication, or explanation, I really think this is going to surprise a lot of people.

I'd probably have filed a bug had I changed my fonts, and noticed this without the explanation in your blog. IMO if this needs fixed it probably needs to be a multiselectable list or a table based UI where you can pick and choose what you're adjusting, one, or many, then adjust a selection at a time.

This to me feels like, if I checked a "select all" on that tabular interface, and it unchecked the small font for me. It's just too strange even if at some level it makes sense.

The fix implemented exactly what was requested: the small font value gets adjusted too, but it becomes smaller than the general font rather than using the same size.

This whole UI needs to be re-visited IMO. For example perhaps we could have plus and minus buttons on the main page that simply increase or decrease all fonts from their current values. But until we do something like that, the fix for this *very old) but is appropriate IMO.