Version: (using KDE KDE 3.1.3DevelKDE 3.2 Alpha 1KDE 3.2 Alpha 1KDE 3.2 Alpha 1KDE 3.2 Alpha 1) Installed from: 000Compiled From SourcesUnlisted Binary PackageUnlisted Binary Package OS: Linux The "undo" icon from crystel-svg (kde 3.1.3 and kde 3.2-alpha) is IMHO wrong. "Redo" shows an clockwise arrow. "Undo" shows an clockwise arrow, too. "Undo" should show a counter clockwise arrow preferable just the "redo" icon flipped.
Created attachment 2438 [details] redo.png
Created attachment 2439 [details] undo.png undo as of 13.09.2003
Created attachment 2440 [details] Proposed undo.png Example for a "better" undo.png
Created attachment 2441 [details] Sample Toolbar Sample toolbar for better imagination
Subject: Re: New: crystal-svg: wrong undo icon Thank you for your report and big excuse for my late reply. > The "undo" icon from crystel-svg (kde 3.1.3 and kde 3.2-alpha) is IMHO > wrong. "Redo" shows an clockwise arrow. "Undo" shows an clockwise arrow, > too. > "Undo" should show a counter clockwise arrow preferable just the "redo" > icon flipped. I'm trying to read between the lines here: You mean it should be switched since it would increase usability because the current design counteracts the "clock-metaphor". The problem is, the icons does not use a clock-metaphor as UI-concept, instead it uses arrows(back/forward) to represent a timescale. If the user interpreted it as a clock your point would be very valid. I simply don't see how your proposal would Increase the usability. AFAICT, the current icons fullfill their purpose, my impression is that users understand what they do. Another point is that MS Windows(perhaps some other OS?) uses it, if they're wrong too it atleast means users emigrating will find it confortable(a consistency aspect). Did you personally associate the icons to a clock(or have the impression that people do)? Some users perhaps sees it as changes going "down into" the document(redo) or are lifted "up, out off" the document(undo). But this is ofcourse bound to where the toolbar is(Like it matters? Who changes it anyway?). On a second thought, the clock metaphor sounds good - in the background a clockface and in the foreground a man(or arrow, probably better) moving to the right (and positioned to the right) for redo, and vice versa. Unfortunately it is very difficult to make it clear on a toolbar button. The clock and arrow metaphor OTOH both use a timescale from left to right to represent time. Is this conception cultural bound(western for sure) or will it work in all cultures? Anyway, I'll mark this one as a WONTFIX unless someone comes up with anything new - I take time as bribes ;-) cheers, Frans
> I'm trying to read between the lines here: You mean it should be switched > since it would increase usability because the current design counteracts the > "clock-metaphor". Ther is no "clock-metaphor". > The problem is, the icons does not use a clock-metaphor as > UI-concept, Of course. > instead it uses arrows(back/forward) to represent a timescale. If > the user interpreted it as a clock your point would be very valid. I simply > don't see how your proposal would Increase the usability. If the Icons would show back/forward that would be OK (But arrows are used already on the back/forward icons). You can interprete the undo/redo icons as a wheel, that you can turn left or right, back or forward (like on old radios). That's because the arrows are bent. If you have two icons that are bent in such a way, that they show a rotation in the same direction, then that's confusing. It would be better understandable if - the undo icon would show a rotation backwards/to the left - and the redo icon would show a rotation to the right: <-\ /-> > Another point is that MS Windows(perhaps some other > OS?) uses it, if they're wrong too it atleast means users emigrating will > find it confortable(a consistency aspect). No, MS, Apple, gnome (abiword,...), xfce, KDE (other iconsets) use it the way I proposed. > Unfortunately it is very difficult to make it clear on a toolbar button. You just have to mirror the redu Icon to get a standard undo Icon. Look at my (icon-) screenshots. Cu, Matthias
I'll discuss this with other kde-artist people...
I agree with Frans that the metaphor is a timeline, rather than a clock. The logistics of such a change mean that this can only really be considered with the new KDE 4 icon solution. I'll try and make sure it is considered in that process :) Danny
Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2005 16:51 schrieb Danny Allen: > ------- Additional Comments From dannya40uk yahoo co uk 2005-08-18 > I agree with Frans that the metaphor is a timeline, > rather than a clock. The logistics of such a change mean that this can > only really be considered with the new KDE 4 icon solution. > > I'll try and make sure it is considered in that process :) OK, if you don't want to change it, it's ok for me. But it's really strange that the kde default icon theme is so inconsistent to nearly all other icon themes and programs. Openoffice: http://www.openoffice.org/screenshots/ooo20/writer/ooo_2b006.jpg Gnumeric: http://homepage.mac.com/sao1/fink/screenshots/gnumeric.html
It's not so much that I don't want to change it, but that such a small change would take so much effort to implement - all screneshots for the documentation would have to be redone, for example. That is why I said I will try and get this issue on the agenda for the kde 4 iconset. Danny