Bug 108634 - default formatting of abbr/acronym is too intrusive
Summary: default formatting of abbr/acronym is too intrusive
Status: CONFIRMED
Alias: None
Product: konqueror
Classification: Applications
Component: khtml (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Platform: Compiled Sources Linux
: NOR normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Konqueror Developers
URL:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2005-07-06 09:52 UTC by Mikolaj Machowski
Modified: 2021-03-21 00:25 UTC (History)
0 users

See Also:
Latest Commit:
Version Fixed In:


Attachments
testcase (75 bytes, text/html)
2007-01-07 17:06 UTC, Philip Rodrigues
Details
Test case showing the default styling in konqueror (283 bytes, text/html)
2007-01-07 20:05 UTC, Mike Williams
Details
Screenshots showing too small edit fields (44.69 KB, image/png)
2009-01-02 16:26 UTC, Richard Bos
Details

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Description Mikolaj Machowski 2005-07-06 09:52:45 UTC
Version:            (using KDE Devel)
Installed from:    Compiled sources
OS:                Linux

I will file a bug (yes, bug - not wish) for this later if necessary but
I'd like to post it here:

Default CSS for acronym, abbr in Konq is::

    ABBR, ACRONYM {
            font-variant: small-caps;
            letter-spacing: 0.1em
    }

(kdelibs/khtml/css/html4.css)

This is bad because small-caps can completely change meaning and
sometimes are unnecessary drawing attention for this element. I would
suggest change to something like default Mozilla/FF::

    ABBR, ACRONYM {
            border-bottom: 1px dotted #000
    }

Less intrusive, gives hint that something is about that string but don't
change visual appearance. Please change it at least for ABBR.

Some examples:

1. etc. -> et cetera. With default Konq CSS it becomes ETC. Similar
   issue with ca. (circa), eg. (exemplum gratia), etc ;)
2. Titles: mjr (major) -> MJR; dr (doctor) -> DR
3. St (street) -> ST.

I suppose reason for small-caps was conviction about use of this tags in
names of firms or organizations but this is not the only use and those
entities can intentionally (eg. for graphic reasons or longevity of
name) use varied caps names. For example SuSE (former name of SUSE)
could automatically become SUSE when used in Konq with those tags.

It can be overrode by font-variant:normal in page CSS but I think that
no one expects such interference.
Comment 1 Mikolaj Machowski 2005-07-06 09:54:40 UTC
And something more from:http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/abbr.html


The sample style sheet for HTML 4.0 in the CSS specification contains the rule
  ABBR, ACRONYM { font-variant: small-caps; letter-spacing: 0.1em }
 but this does not correspond to actual browser behavior. And those features would be rather unsuitable for many, or most, abbreviations and acronyms, such as "tel.", " TCP/IP", and "radar". (You might see these examples as rendered according to the rule mentioned above. Since IE 6 does not recognize the abbr markup, I have cheated a little by using additional span markup.)
Comment 2 Philip Rodrigues 2007-01-07 17:06:47 UTC
Created attachment 19157 [details]
testcase

Another case where the current default rendering is perhaps not ideal: when the
acronym is already all upper-case. Then there's only the small extra spacing to
distinguish it.
Comment 3 Mike Williams 2007-01-07 20:05:18 UTC
Created attachment 19165 [details]
Test case showing the default styling in konqueror

This is an expanded test case showing what happens to lower case letters when
they are in abbr and acronym tags.

This is what the w3c has to say about the stylesheet that includes the default
behavior for abbr and acronym that konqueror uses:

----------------------------

This appendix is informative, not normative.

This style sheet describes the typical formatting of all HTML 4.0 ([HTML40])
elements based on extensive research into current UA practice. Developers are
encouraged to use it as a default style sheet in their implementations.

--------------------------------

So, if the style they provided isn't normative for what other browsers do for
the abbr and acronym tags (which seems to be why the bug was reported), then
we, konqueror, should do what is normative.
Comment 4 Mike Williams 2007-01-08 03:26:46 UTC
This bug marked as confirmed. At the very least, maybe the konqueror devs will change the spacing when these tags are applied to capitalized letters.
Comment 5 Mikolaj Machowski 2007-01-08 16:44:29 UTC
> 03:26 ------- This bug marked as confirmed. At the very least, maybe the
> konqueror devs will change the spacing when these tags are applied to
> capitalized letters.


IMO all styling should be scrapped or changed to less intrusive dotted
bottom border as I suggested in report.

While capitalization has some sense for 'acronym' due to IE not
supporting 'abbr', 'acronym' is often used as a replacement for 'abbr'.
Also even not all acronyms should be capitalized. Apart from mentioned
in OP you have for example Gestapo (Geheime Staats Polizei - Secret
State Police). In Konq it would be GESTAPO - never seen it in historical
texts.

m.
Comment 6 Mikolaj Machowski 2007-01-08 16:45:29 UTC
Forgot: exemplary CSS from W3C is from 1998. Situation changed "a bit"
in 8 years...
Comment 7 Karl Ove Hufthammer 2008-08-12 19:37:50 UTC
Just stumbled over this bug when my Web page suddenly looked completely strange in Konqueror in the latest KDE 4.1 stable checkout. All my abbreviations were turned into rescaled uppercase letters (not even real small-caps).

Small-caps may be appropriate for the ‘acronym’ element, but it certainly isn’t appropriate for ‘abbr’. It means that abbreviations such as ‘e.g.’ and ‘i.e.’ gets rendered as ‘E.G.’ and ‘I.E.’, which is wrong, ortographically speaking. It’s even worse for other languages, that use more and longer abbreviations.

I recommend you follow other browsers, and instead use a dotted underline.
Comment 8 Maksim Orlovich 2008-08-12 19:51:33 UTC
Yeah, it's synthetic smallcaps since Qt < 4.4 didn't support real ones. I guess we should use real ones these days, would make it look less like uppercase. Anyway, it sounds like you're right, but a rendering dude should be the one to act, not me.
Comment 9 Richard Bos 2009-01-02 16:26:58 UTC
Created attachment 29830 [details]
Screenshots showing too small edit fields

Added screenshots showing too small edit fields
Comment 10 Mikolaj Machowski 2009-01-02 16:36:14 UTC
Richard, this screenshot isn't about *this* bug (format of abbr, acronym).
Comment 11 Justin Zobel 2021-03-21 00:25:13 UTC
Thank you for the bug report.

As this report hasn't seen any changes in 10 years or more, we ask if you can please confirm that the issue still persists.

If this bug is no longer persisting or relevant please change the status to resolved.